Mercedes E300- hybrid problem

[dolb21]

Hi guys, i've got yet another problem with my E300 hybrid ( these things are plagued) .
When i start ignition, it stays on the electric drive and instead of switching the engine on, it stays blocked on the hybrid drive until the battery runs out and the car stops.
If i switch on the engine on the SPORT mode , the engine runs fine, but once i put it in Eco ( comfort ) mode , the engine cuts-off and stays locked on electric drive.
I went to my local garage and the only errors that caught my attention ( that might be related ) have been:
P087000 - OIL PRESSURE SENSOR 'C' HAS AN ELECTRICAL FAULT
P126F29 & P126F29 - THE SIGNAL 'HOT START' FROM THE AUTOMATIC ENGINE START/STOP SYSTEM HAS A MALFUNCTION. THE SIGNAL IS INVALID / THERE IS AN IMPLAUSIBLE SIGNAL.
U040100 - IMPLAUSIBLE DATA WERE RECEIVED FROM CONTROL UNIT ' COMBUSTION-ENGINE'
P008709 - THE FUEL PRESSURE IN THE SYSTEM IS TOO LOW
U041600 - IMPLAUSIBLE DATA WERE RECEIVED FROM CONTROL UNIT 'TRACTION SYSTEM'
Thanks

 

[Headhurts]

No idea I'm afraid, I had one for 2 years and really liked it.

They are so specialised that the dealership only had 2 techs trained up to work on them.

Is it still under warranty?

If not it is something I would definitely take out.

I hope you get this sorted without too much expense.

Robin


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[dolb21]

I’ve got platinum warranty from RAC, but they are very picky.
They said not to go to main dealer.
I tried explaining them that the dealer is the only way as it’s high voltage battery and there is risk of electrocution .

 

[Headhurts]

You probably need to go back to RAC and explain that only main dealers can repair this car is is very specialised.

It was and maybe still is the only Hybrid diesel.

I’m not sure even the well thought of specialists can deal with these.

Robin


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[grober]

HERE'S AN EXPLANATION OF THE VARIOUS DRIVE MODES. It would appear you have a problem with the controller unit not switching the engine back on when more power is required. As suggested you need to get the car to an MB tech with the equipment and experience to diagnose the problem properly

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[Tuercas viejas]

Hi guys, i've got yet another problem with my E300 hybrid ( these things are plagued) .
When i start ignition, it stays on the electric drive and instead of switching the engine on, it stays blocked on the hybrid drive until the battery runs out and the car stops.
If i switch on the engine on the SPORT mode , the engine runs fine, but once i put it in Eco ( comfort ) mode , the engine cuts-off and stays locked on electric drive.
I went to my local garage and the only errors that caught my attention ( that might be related ) have been:
P087000 - OIL PRESSURE SENSOR 'C' HAS AN ELECTRICAL FAULT
P126F29 & P126F29 - THE SIGNAL 'HOT START' FROM THE AUTOMATIC ENGINE START/STOP SYSTEM HAS A MALFUNCTION. THE SIGNAL IS INVALID / THERE IS AN IMPLAUSIBLE SIGNAL.
U040100 - IMPLAUSIBLE DATA WERE RECEIVED FROM CONTROL UNIT ' COMBUSTION-ENGINE'
P008709 - THE FUEL PRESSURE IN THE SYSTEM IS TOO LOW
U041600 - IMPLAUSIBLE DATA WERE RECEIVED FROM CONTROL UNIT 'TRACTION SYSTEM'
Thanks

Well I can proffer some suggestions based upon my earlier experiences with Toyota (Being factory trained) and the same on GMC Denali Hybrids which have the GMC Allison transmission which has been cipied by ZF or "vickey verky"--who knows!!

Clearly there is nothing wrong with the ICE in power/sport mode as I see it.
So you have communications issues in the auto hybrid drive synchronization mode.
The PCM is looking for a zero oil pressure sense so that it can determine the state of the engine--running or not!
So no comms & the unit cannot get a getaway clearance to start
Again
The hot start gateway is interrupted --basically the same problem.
Implausible data is the key--BOTH control units are not giving out the correct info to start since the traction control needs to ensure the wheel speeds are synchronized and inputted to the PCM and the PCM doesn't know what's going on so it won't start in Hybrid mode--basically power unit protection.
Now to find the fault a complete knowledge of function is key! together with a factory scanner. This is not a DIY'r activity! But sensor activity/ communication and voltage on the CAN are probable causes.

As a preamble of basic understanding Toyota has to lead in this case!
Just like the MB the PCM and transmission/traction control must know what each sub component is doing to ensure smooth power flow to the wheels by the electric traction motor and ICE.
To achieve this there is an engine input via the crank sensor/oil pressure signal. Engine activity monitored .
The input motor MG1 (motor generator) which is responsible for variable drive gear operation and instant engine starts is monitored by a sine wave signal.
MG2 traction motor is monitored by a cosine wave signal output. These two signals are run through a resolver circuit to synchronize the operation of all three major elements MG1 MG2 and the ICE taking traction control inputs as a modulator .
Your problem I bet lies within these lines of communication between sensors and modules.
Can only be found I bet with a factory scanner and some product knowledge like my Toyota/ Lexus coursework/experience.
All the best
Tuercas viejas

 

[zipdip]

Well I was thinking of buying one of these,but a company I know has three of them and they have been nothing but trouble,when I meet the owner of the company he says do not talk about cars ,but I do know the faults are many and various,a shame because it seems like a good idea to have a diesel hybrid,just maybe Mercedes rushed this into production.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

Yes the setup is very similar to the now quickly forgotten MB "marriage" with Chrysler/Mopar & their units (Aspen & Durango models) that emerged for a short time on this side before being withdrawn or at least ceased production.
Plagued with electrical communications the vehicle wasn't popular and simply didn't sell. I have seen one unit in my shop which had similar issues which the customer did not want me to tackle after basic diag'; he traded it!
All these platforms share one thing in common with exception of Toyota/ Lexus with Aisin. Viz:-

An existing auto transmission was basically modified to accept an electrical traction motor housed in the same spare where once dwelt generally two epicyclic speed packs.

GMC Yukon models did emerge with hybrid derivatives similarly built by using the Allison transmission & 300volt nickel metal hydride battery which have done marginally better but only Ford USA who bought the rights to the Toyota Aisin system but used their own controls have been super successful with it!
For me as a shop owner only the Toyota /Lexus Hybrid has been the easiest to fix and stay fixed unlike others.
Cheers T/V

 

[Headhurts]

Well I can proffer some suggestions based upon my earlier experiences with Toyota (Being factory trained) and the same on GMC Denali Hybrids which have the GMC Allison transmission which has been cipied by ZF or "vickey verky"--who knows!!

Clearly there is nothing wrong with the ICE in power/sport mode as I see it.
So you have communications issues in the auto hybrid drive synchronization mode.
The PCM is looking for a zero oil pressure sense so that it can determine the state of the engine--running or not!
So no comms & the unit cannot get a getaway clearance to start
Again
The hot start gateway is interrupted --basically the same problem.
Implausible data is the key--BOTH control units are not giving out the correct info to start since the traction control needs to ensure the wheel speeds are synchronized and inputted to the PCM and the PCM doesn't know what's going on so it won't start in Hybrid mode--basically power unit protection.
Now to find the fault a complete knowledge of function is key! together with a factory scanner. This is not a DIY'r activity! But sensor activity/ communication and voltage on the CAN are probable causes.

As a preamble of basic understanding Toyota has to lead in this case!
Just like the MB the PCM and transmission/traction control must know what each sub component is doing to ensure smooth power flow to the wheels by the electric traction motor and ICE.
To achieve this there is an engine input via the crank sensor/oil pressure signal. Engine activity monitored .
The input motor MG1 (motor generator) which is responsible for variable drive gear operation and instant engine starts is monitored by a sine wave signal.
MG2 traction motor is monitored by a cosine wave signal output. These two signals are run through a resolver circuit to synchronize the operation of all three major elements MG1 MG2 and the ICE taking traction control inputs as a modulator .
Your problem I bet lies within these lines of communication between sensors and modules.
Can only be found I bet with a factory scanner and some product knowledge like my Toyota/ Lexus coursework/experience.
All the best
Tuercas viejas

What?

[emoji3]

Robin


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[grober]

ICE = In Car Entertainment
or in this case
ICE= Internal Combustion Engine

 

[SteveFromAvantgarde]

Some of the fault codes there I don't recognise. That is down to the scanner they have used to pull the fault codes. I would find a specialist with STAR.

I have had 3 of these E300H cause me trouble. The faults I have had are the hybrid battery failing, loose contacts/broken wiring to the engine ECU (there is a TIPS document concerning that) and the AC system has a leak causing the battery to overheat and shut down as it is cooled via the AC system.

 

[dolb21]

Thanks to all for replying, it's been a long time.
So, after writing this thread i've been involved in an accident, someone crashed into the back of my car .
The car has been sat for 3 months being repaired, i managed to get it diagnosed at Mercedes Dealership but these guys seem clueless.
Mercedes dealer said that , because i didn't do my servicing with them, that's what caused the fault.
Then they gave me a list of what's wrong. On the list it says EXCHANGE STARTER + FLYWHEEL.
To me that doesn't relate at all to the usual servicing on the car.
I just got the car back a week ago, it still drives in the same state
ie: it engages hybrid mode, but stays stuck in that mode.. the engine won't turn over.
If i put it on neutral and select SPORT mode, then i can drive the car without a worry ( it just won't do the start/stop and switch the engine off ).
Thanks

 

[toolman1954]

Hi,
Nice to hear back from you and I hope you or passengers were not hurt resulting from the accident. Seems you need to find a dealer that understands the Hybrids. Post the area where you live and see if someone can recommend a dealer to help you.

Steve

 

[grober]

My post from another forum THREAD in 2014
E300 Hybrid Reliability Issues

QUOTE
These new hybrid drive systems are immensely complicated with multiple components found throughout the car as this related article shows. for example the lithium ion battery pack is embedded in the A/C system! http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...8oGACg&usg=AFQjCNEEqIjke0vo_tdI6pmcw2JRxe-9jg
Under these circumstances it might be argued that in parallel to the introduction of this new technology Mercedes need to implement a different strategy to the repair of these vehicles in the event of them developing a fault early in their life. In the rare event of a major powertrain problem occurring early in a hybrid vehicle's life the only effective solution to maintain adequate customer satisfaction might be to give them another car and return the faulty one to the manufacturing facility?
New technology may dictate new repair/replacement strategies.

Since a new "starter motor" and flywheel essentially describes the entire hybrid drive system the cost would be eye watering. Afaik in Sport mode the hybrid drive system is effectively not used so this may be your only option to continue using your car without throwing lots of money at it with only a 50/50 chance of effecting a repair.

 

[dolb21]

Thanks Grober i was afraid of that theory too.
The thing is, even in SPORT mode, the electric drive still works ( slightly ) or when you kickdown will work continuosly with the combustion engine . I think and hope that this is no more than a relay / solenoid problem OR the TCU might be faulty.
> Toolman1954, all my passengers were ok no one was harmed , but nasty accident that was !

 

[dolb21]

Proper diagnostic has been done.
Starter motor needs replacing ( altough it works ), cost of part is 430 / cost of labour at dealership is 640 for 4 1/2 hrs of labour. Bloody extortion that is !

 

[jay00989]

Proper diagnostic has been done.
Starter motor needs replacing ( altough it works ), cost of part is 430 / cost of labour at dealership is 640 for 4 1/2 hrs of labour. Bloody extortion that is !

Hi how did you manage to get along with your vehicle ? Did you find the root cause of the issue. Unfortunately im having the exact same issue with the car and mercedes cannot figure out what it is !

 

[Harunkhan123]

Hya I bought my e300 hybrid 2 years ago 14 plate with a years mercedes warranty on it.
The first year was fine when it went wron which it did twice they fixed it, once my warranty ran out I got my own from motor wise even after EXPLAINING my car is hybrid they said all is ok, until early this year I had the same problem.......it wouldn’t switch from electric to diesel, got it diagnosed at Mercedes garage........sensor 100 starter Motor 650 and tensioner 1800 all with labour after emailing motorwise for a month and running back and forth from the garage cos motorwise hadn’t a clue how to read the diagnostic report I cancelled with motorwise they simply said it’s wear and tear, this car is nothing but trouble, you cannot fix this car unless you go to main dealers........had to pluck up courage and sell the car at a loss

 

[markjay]

..you cannot fix this car unless you go to main dealers........

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

I would take it as a given that a hybrid car (all marques, not just MB) needs to be repaired at the dealer.

Traditionally, the primary reason that buyers purchased new hybrid cars was the very low (or nil) BIK.

In that scenario, the car is being purchased with finance and replaced after 2 or 3 years.

The first owner will therefore have no issue with the cost of dealer repairs, because the car will still be covered by the manufacture's warranty during the finance or lease period.

It's down to the second owner, who buys the car second hand, to consider that hybrid cars are complex and many of the potential issues will require dealer attention.

The exception perhpas is Toyota/Lexus, where thanks to their near-Legendary reliability second hand buyers are unlikely to experience major issues.

 

[Harunkhan123]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

I would take it as a given that a hybrid car (all marques, not just MB) needs to be repaired at the dealer.

Traditionally, the primary reason that buyers purchased new hybrid cars was the very low (or nil) BIK.

In that scenario, the car is being purchased with finance and replaced after 2 or 3 years.

The first owner will therefore have no issue with the cost of dealer repairs, because the car will still be covered by the manufacture's warranty during the finance or lease period.

It's down to the second owner, who buys the car second hand, to consider that hybrid cars are complex and many of the potential issues will require dealer attention.

The exception perhpas is Toyota/Lexus, where thanks to their near-Legendary reliability second hand buyers are unlikely to experience major issues.

Sounds about right I fall into the second owner but am glad i have got rid of it I am at peace now