Mis-Sold a Car, What can i do?

[markjay]

An automatic 2014 S204 will have the 7G-Tronic Plus transmission. The service schedule for this unit is every 5 years or 77,500 miles, whichever comes first. So you can work out the rest.

As for the wheel bearings, the fronts are adjustable and it's a 5 minute job to adjust them, unless of course the bearing is shot in which case a new one will be required - though that's not a huge job either.

That been said.... 'full Mercedes history' is not the same as 'full history', in terms of the car's value. So if it was 'not as advertised' then you were missold the car, no doubt about it - even if the car is well-maintained and in perfect condition, the market value is different.

As for your trade-in car, he's having a laugh, because as a private seller you have zero liability other than if acting fraudulently or not disclosing material information such that the car was an insurance write-off etc, which is clearly not the case here.

 

[einriba]

An automatic 2014 S204 will have the 7G-Tronic Plus transmission. The service schedule for this unit is every 5 years or 77,500 miles, whichever comes first. So you can work out the rest.

As for the wheel bearings, the fronts are adjustable and it's a 5 minute job to adjust them, unless of course the bearing is shot in which case a new one will be required - though that's not a huge job either.

That been said.... 'full Mercedes history' is not the same as 'full history', in terms of the car's value. So if it was 'not as advertised' then you were missold the car, no doubt about it - even if the car is well-maintained and in perfect condition, the market value is different.

As for your trade-in car, he's having a laugh, because as a private seller you have zero liability other than if acting fraudulently or not disclosing material information such that the car was an insurance write-off etc, which is clearly not the case here.

That's what I have - the S204, with the 7G-Tronic plus. It was last done in 2017 on 29k miles. It's now on 121k miles so overdue. I'm sure in the service schedule that came with the car it said every 31,000 miles for the AT fluids. I'll double check tonight when I get home.

Agree with you on the rest. Bearing shouldn't be an issue at all - either adjustment or new.

That's the bit that's wound me up - the advert states it has a FSH, he confirmed it had a FSH. However, it has 2 merc services, 2 engine oil changes at an independent, and that's it. That's where citizens advice are going as it's not sold as advertised. The definition of a full service history is that it follows the schedule as set out by the manufacturer. Whether it's done by dealer / approved seems to have debate around it. But they agree, follow the servicing schedule. 1 missed service means it's not FSH. This is missing over 50% of them.

 

[Smiley]

The definition of a full service history is that it follows the schedule as set out by the manufacturer.

I don't think you can imply that. Full service history means that there is a record of some sort, whether it be stamps in a book or receipts or notes in a book, of what services the car has had by date and or mileage from new to today's date. If only seven services have been carried out in 8 years when it should have had 8, or the brake fluid has only been changed twice, that does not change the fact that the car has a full service history. It is up to you to check what that "full service history" means before you buy the car.
Car dealers know that few 8 year old cars have a full service history which follows the manufacturer schedule; so they would rather buyers did not investigate too carefully. Most buyers don't really know what to look for anyway.
None of the above changes the position that the representations made by the seller were misleading and incorrect and he owes you some compensation for the reduced value of the car.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

traditionally Full Service History meant proof that a car was maintained in line with the manufacturers schedule, on time, every time. I’ve just Googled it and it seems that the AA and others still define it as such.

However it’s commonly meant to mean a record of everything that has been done, so not necessarily in line with the manufacturers schedule, not on time, not every time, and not necessarily by garages.

Like I said before you have a strong case on the beating but I don’t think you’ll get anywhere in the transmission service, beyond a contribution from the dealer to recognise that you were misled regarding FSH.

I would imagine that a dealer would contribute half of the transmission service (£150) in recognition but would be reluctant to give much more as it would inevitably mean that they would make a loss.

If you’re looking for substantially more than that then as I said before just reject the car and hand it back to the dealer. I wouldn’t hang about either as it will weaken your case, just take it back.

 

[einriba]

I don't think you can imply that. Full service history means that there is a record of some sort, whether it be stamps in a book or receipts or notes in a book, of what services the car has had by date and or mileage from new to today's date. If only seven services have been carried out in 8 years when it should have had 8, or the brake fluid has only been changed twice, that does not change the fact that the car has a full service history. It is up to you to check what that "full service history" means before you buy the car.
Car dealers know that few 8 year old cars have a full service history which follows the manufacturer schedule; so they would rather buyers did not investigate too carefully. Most buyers don't really know what to look for anyway.
None of the above changes the position that the representations made by the seller were misleading and incorrect and he owes you some compensation for the reduced value of the car.

traditionally Full Service History meant proof that a car was maintained in line with the manufacturers schedule, on time, every time. I’ve just Googled it and it seems that the AA and others still define it as such.

However it’s commonly meant to mean a record of everything that has been done, so not necessarily in line with the manufacturers schedule, not on time, not every time, and not necessarily by garages.

Like I said before you have a strong case on the beating but I don’t think you’ll get anywhere in the transmission service, beyond a contribution from the dealer to recognise that you were misled regarding FSH.

I would imagine that a dealer would contribute half of the transmission service (£150) in recognition but would be reluctant to give much more as it would inevitably mean that they would make a loss.

If you’re looking for substantially more than that then as I said before just reject the car and hand it back to the dealer. I wouldn’t hang about either as it will weaken your case, just take it back.

I asked Citizens Advice this one as well. They were clear - if it's advertised as having a full service history, it needs to have followed the schedule set out by the manufacturer. I stated that I think he's seeing a different angle, ie he has provided all the receipts for the work that has been done, and they replied that was misleading and wrong. If that's what was meant, the advert should be worded differently. Adverts cannot be misleading.

We'll see how it goes. I think this guy will tell me to f*** *ff. That friendly family man seems to have disappeared. Right now I'd be happy with a gesture of goodwill just to get this crap done and dusted.

 

[colinallcars]

Whilst it may be too late, remember you want this guy to help you so try to avoid being antagonist.

 

[einriba]

Whilst it may be too late, remember you want this guy to help you so try to avoid being antagonist.

Yep, totally agree. I've remained as neutral as possible. I've even offered "get outs" such as "hopeful this is just an administrative error". I've not been condescending, threatening or antagonistic. His comments have not been great, so I don't hold up much hope of this being resolved amicably.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

@einriba What’s the resolution you want?

 

[einriba]

@einriba What’s the resolution you want?

Right now. I'd be happy with the bearing bearing done and the transmission fluid. I'm gonna have to accept I've been naïve with the "full service history" and that's going to have cost me in terms of the value of the car.

 

[Petrol Pete]

OP ,you mention taking a hit on the 'value of the car' because of the missing service history . An 8yr old mass produced car with 121K miles on it 'is what it is' . A missing service history is not going to take much out of it when later sold (or sent to the auction block on trade in) with say 171k miles when it is 13 years old.

Just keep decent records when it is in your ownership.

 

[einriba]

OP ,you mention taking a hit on the 'value of the car' because of the missing service history . An 8yr old mass produced car with 121K miles on it 'is what it is' . A missing service history is not going to take much out of it when later sold (or sent to the auction block on trade in) with say 171k miles when it is 13 years old.

Just keep decent records when it is in your ownership.

Yep, that's a really good point.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Right now. I'd be happy with the bearing bearing done and the transmission fluid. I'm gonna have to accept I've been naïve with the "full service history" and that's going to have cost me in terms of the value of the car.

Have you asked for that?

I think you’ll struggle to get both the bearing and cost of transmission service but if that what you want then you should clearly state to the vendor. I doubt any third party warranty (even if there is one) would cover the bearing (as it was present at point of sale) so the vendor will likely have to meet the cost of the bearing replacement.

As said before, the bearing should be sorted and I’d be surprised if the vendor resists. A reasonable outcome would be for the vendor to give you £150 (50%) on top of that repair, which you could put towards the transmission service, not because it should have been done, but as a good will gesture given that he exaggerated the service history, anything more is a bonus.

If the vendor won’t meet your minimum expectation - whatever that might be - then let him know now that you’re rejecting the car and get it back to him ASAP. That allows you to find the right car with FSH, and it allows him to sell on the car too and try and make his margin on it with a someone else. It also allows him to offload your P/X which was riddled with issues

Life is too short to dwell on these things.

 

[A.J.]

If the vendor won’t meet your minimum expectation - whatever that might be - then let him know now that you’re rejecting the car and get it back to him ASAP

When did this all start, the OP isn't running out of time is he for a rejection

 

[l5foye]

When did this all start, the OP isn't running out of time is he for a rejection

Often when I hear about a car being mis-sold, a more accurate description would be mis-bought. In this case the car is allegedly within the 3 month warranty period , yet there is no mention of this being explored. Why?

 

[DSM10000]

Often when I hear about a car being mis-sold, a more accurate description would be mis-bought. In this case the car is allegedly within the 3 month warranty period , yet there is no mention of this being explored. Why?

How would a warranty cover previously missed service items?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Often when I hear about a car being mis-sold, a more accurate description would be mis-bought. In this case the car is allegedly within the 3 month warranty period , yet there is no mention of this being explored. Why?

If a third-part warranty is in place on this car, then they wouldn’t cover the cost of a repair at the point of sale, that’s for the Vendor to resolve.

Naughty dealerss will still try to charge back repairs to third-party warranting companies though, and waiting to get this resolved helps the vendor to do that.

The OP seems much more concerned about the patchy service history than the bearing though, and I can’t see how a warranty would change that?

 

[einriba]

Have you asked for that?

I think you’ll struggle to get both the bearing and cost of transmission service but if that what you want then you should clearly state to the vendor. I doubt any third party warranty (even if there is one) would cover the bearing (as it was present at point of sale) so the vendor will likely have to meet the cost of the bearing replacement.

As said before, the bearing should be sorted and I’d be surprised if the vendor resists. A reasonable outcome would be for the vendor to give you £150 (50%) on top of that repair, which you could put towards the transmission service, not because it should have been done, but as a good will gesture given that he exaggerated the service history, anything more is a bonus.

If the vendor won’t meet your minimum expectation - whatever that might be - then let him know now that you’re rejecting the car and get it back to him ASAP. That allows you to find the right car with FSH, and it allows him to sell on the car too and try and make his margin on it with a someone else. It also allows him to offload your P/X which was riddled with issues

Life is too short to dwell on these things.

I have asked for that, and been told the car is fine, so nothing is going to be done. He's received the letter, his response will be before my 30 days are up. So if I don't like the reply, or he doesn't reply, it's going back.

When did this all start, the OP isn't running out of time is he for a rejection

Car bought on 31st Aug.

Often when I hear about a car being mis-sold, a more accurate description would be mis-bought. In this case the car is allegedly within the 3 month warranty period , yet there is no mention of this being explored. Why?

I stated to the dealer that we're well within the 30 days and I'd like it repaired (the bearing) and he's said there's no issue. However, the mercedes garage here disagree and say it needs replacing. The dealer isn't interested in investigating - just a straight no.

If a third-part warranty is in place on this car, then they wouldn’t cover the cost of a repair at the point of sale, that’s for the Vendor to resolve.

Naughty dealerss will still try to charge back repairs to third-party warranting companies though, and waiting to get this resolved helps the vendor to do that.

The OP seems much more concerned about the patchy service history than the bearing though, and I can’t see how a warranty would change that?

It's not 3rd party - he said he'd repair any issue himself. But as we live 2 hours away, he'd honour any repair that needed doing. First issue we have and he's saying no.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I have asked for that, and been told the car is fine, so nothing is going to be done. He's received the letter, his response will be before my 30 days are up. So if I don't like the reply, or he doesn't reply, it's going back.



Car bought on 31st Aug.



I stated to the dealer that we're well within the 30 days and I'd like it repaired (the bearing) and he's said there's no issue. However, the mercedes garage here disagree and say it needs replacing. The dealer isn't interested in investigating - just a straight no.



It's not 3rd party - he said he'd repair any issue himself. But as we live 2 hours away, he'd honour any repair that needed doing. First issue we have and he's saying no.

I think the tone has been set, and he’s told you verbally what he might put in writing, or might not (probably won’t based upon what you have said.

If he’s denying the bearing issue then you don’t stand a chance with issues down the line. You need to accept it or reject it.

 

[clk320x]

This is why I NEVER buy cars from ‘traders’… I’d rather buy private at a lower cost and have any future issues sorted myself.

 

[A.J.]

This is why I NEVER buy cars from ‘traders’… I’d rather buy private at a lower cost and have any future issues sorted myself.

I think that is riskier buying from a private seller. The possible reason that that dealer has a dodgy car is that a private seller has sold it to him. People seem to think it is fair game to stitch up a dealer because once he has bought it there is no comeback on them.

I am afraid I would rather pay a little bit more and buy from a respected dealer and avoid all of this hassle, it isn't worth it just to save a few quid.

I spent 42 years of my life in that Motor Industry and I know how devious some private sellers can be and as a private buyer you should avoid him like the plague unles you know the seller or know the car. There is an adage you should abide by and that is buyer beware !