please help? no compression/timing 20deg out

[podmo]

hi all newbee here ,i was wondering if anybody could help out with any advice, i have a 2003 c200 kompressor 1.8, there is no compression at all as such the car wont start,the engine turns freely and fuel is getting through. i have had the cam cover off and the chain is in place and seems nice and tight and it all looks clean having only done 57k. i have managed to check the timing,i have turned the crankshaft pully to its tdc position and it appears the timming is out ,on the left hand camshaft looking at the engine from the front the timing marker i'd say is about a tooth out ,and on the right hand camshaft it looks to be at least 3 teeth out.im going to check/ replace the tensioner tommorow all been well as this is the only part that i think of that may of failed, would the timing been out by this much cause the valves to remain open to cause lack of compression or would the timing have to be out much further?im guessing its out by about 15 to 20 degrees ?also would the timing been this far out lead to valve damage? hope you can help, many thanks and hello all

 

[startech]

if your timing is that far out and you have no compression it would have done a lot of damage. You are going to have to take off the cylinder head for further investigations.

 

[andymerc]

If you have no compression then most likely the valves have touched.depending which engine you have the valve timing is set up at 25 degrees after tdc and camshafts have locking pins (111 engine)

 

[podmo]

hi i think my tdc is not set up at 25.deg as its the 271 type engine, im stuck as to what the cause of the problem is im worried that if i fix the head and turn the key it could all happen again? the chain is in good order but not sure if the tensioner has caused this ?

 

[Dieselman]

the chain is in good order but not sure if the tensioner has caused this ?

Even if the tensioner is u/s all it will do is let the chain go slack but the timing should stay correct unless the chain jumps.
Are you sure you are winding the engine the correct way round and has the chain been noisy enough to jump.?

 

[podmo]

hi dieselman yes im winding clockwise,just cant understand what would make the chain jump if it has? i may take the head off tommorow and see if there is bent valves,only thing is once its off im pretty much commited to fixing it. dont know if the chain was noisy as it was a non runner when i purchased it...was meant to need a coil pack so somebodysb had my pants down!

 

[MeanRedSpider]

Wonder if it's a botched repair then sold on with some made-up reason.... I'm not familiar with Merc engines but i'd think it was almost impossible to get a chain to jump on the Alfa chain-driven cam engines I do know very well. The tensioner would need to be missing altogether and, even then, I'm not sure. One tooth out though would be enough for valve-to-piston contact. Good luck!

 

[AllanE]

With no tensioner you can get some timing float, but it should flag up an error before anything terminal, as the cam sensor ssignal should be out of sync. with the crank sensor.
The chance of jumping a tooth or two I'd suggest is quite low - much more likely with a cambelt.
If it's off a few teeth, I'd suggest it's been done 'mechanically'.

As you've bought this as a non-runner, I'd just get the head off, excpecting the worst and hoping for the best - if you have no compression, the valves aren't closing (at least when they should), so if it's just timing, you may have valve/piston contact.

If you really don't want to take the head off, you could loosen the cam caps off so all the valves are closed and do another compressiuon check, if it's possible on this engine - a slack tensioner should allow enough room for this or just unbolt a sprocket.

 

[Mercedes cozy]

If the cam was removed I wonder if you can do a cylinder leak test. This should show if there is a leak in the valves. Try the cheaper option with the cylinder leak test.

If there is a leak then I would remove te head.

Whats the condition of the teeth on the gears?

 

[podmo]

ive decised to take the head off chaps , not as easy as i thought,lot of bits to remove so has taken a couple af days with the help of a manual ans nothing coming off as it should, will keep you posted with what lurks inside

 

[neilireland]

i have had this problem with lots of these engines the timing chain stretches......

you can get away with just putting a timing chain in if its two teeth or less out on the cam with no damage caused to the valves,but if you say its out three teeth damaged is most likely......no need to replace the tensioner.