w211 e220 cdi idle

[whitefang]

Hi all how's it going?

i found a topic started by david ..as below,
E220 CDI running rough (late '07),

i replied to post, but as greenmanslk reposted that the topic started back in 2015. so it may not get any more replies.

so my father as the same car as the above post, w211 e220 cdi 07 facelift. Lovely car, he's had it for about 2 - 3 months, perfect at the beginning, but started to play up.

I'm using the internet on his behalf, he good with cars but with the net not a hope .
His car was good, then it started to... When you start it from cold it's starts fine, idles fine, when you drive off it's fine, but after about 5 - 10 minute or so, when you pull up it idles rough. As if the automatic choke on a old 1980's car is stuck.
I plugged the car into my diagnostic unit (autel md508 , I think it's the 508, I can confirm that later when I get home.. sorry is a autel md805) & it gave us a code back saying glow plug #... Nothing else .

So we ordered 4 new glow plugs off autodoc.uk (great site for parts, helpful guys aswell). The parts came, put them in & guess what... Before he started the car I plugged my autel back into the car, started the car, all fine, no codes, left the car run for x minutes while we had cup tea, went back out & the car idle rough again.

It only does this after the first few minutes & when the car is at normal operating temp' it's ok.
But it should be ok all the time you know. Hence why we changed the glow plugs.

could the problem be the glow plug control module.?
or
a heat sensor some were.?
any one of you tell us were this glow plug control module is on the 220 cdi unit, please

Have any you guys any idea's please.

Thanks all.

 

[whitefang]

hi all,
quick thing, can i check the gl/plug control module.?

can i remove the caps going to the gl/ plug & check the voltage on the wires going to the gl/plugs, this in turn would tell me if the control module is ok.? yes.?

does any one know what the power rating's are that i would be looking for or expecting on the wires going to the plugs.?

& what kind of readings i dont want to find (if that makes sense.)

thanks all.

 

[ManofKent]

Hi
If the engine is fine for the first few minutes and then has a rough idle I would not suspect the glow plugs.

Possible long shot :

When cold the EMS gives the engine more fuel. As it warms up the "choke" effect is cancelled- which may be when the rough idle starts, so I would be looking at fuel supply, rail pressure, fuel filter etc.

Good luck

John

 

[whitefang]

thanks john for the info',

i read some were now, (i could re track my steps) but, the oil sensor is linked to the control module, when the oil is cold then the g/plugs stay active till warm up, then as the oil warms g/plugs stop. Is that correct.?

could i have a bad / faulty oil sensor.?
there's no dash light's on.

if it was fuel supply related wouldn't this make the car run if-e / bad all the time,?

thanks john / all.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Why not get it connected to Star to diagnose?

 

[whitefang]

hi ya pmcgsmurf, how you doing.?
i have the autel md805, its fairly good mate. tells you all / a lot of the trouble code & discription to them. (not as good as star or inpa for bmw, but its meant to be 1 of the top best for a diy guy).

i plugged the car in few weeks ago & it gave a fault / code back, if i can remember it was somewere on the lines of glow plug, cant be completely sure what it said.
so we got some new replacements & changed them, then i plugged back in & car started, ticked over fine - smooth, the autel md805 diagnostic unit gave no trouble codes back. so the car was unpluged.

then, alittle while after it started rough idle.
il try get over to my parent's this weekend & plug it in again,

im going off the topic alittle now, but bear with me....
i have a work friend that as a mazda 6 diesel 08.
& he drives a bit hard. but he was saying to me that its braking down under pressure, so he had the dpf cleaned, the turbo cleaned & checked, new map / maf sensors. he spent a good few quid on the car, plugged it in to different units & no faults came back. the guys in the garage (i dont no were he took it) no 1 could figure it out. then the 1 day by mistake they found a wire that was frade & braking down. the joined it / fixed it & the car is all good.

this is what got me thinking, about when i plugged in the the merc, no codes.... but i will re-plug.

thanks pmcgsmurf. / all.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

I've no idea if your Autel will read codes specific to the car configuration such as Star or Icarsoft.

If it doesn't then you really are giving yourself a lot of guess work and headaches when a simple specific diagnostic test may point you in correct direction.
Get it to an Indy with Star or get yourself an Icarsoft, likely save you a lot of running around in circles.

 

[whitefang]

thanks mate, il have a look at the icarsoft.

 

[whitefang]

hi all, hope your well.

today plugged the car in from cold, then did a scan with the above scan unit (autel md805), the car was ticking over fine for the 1st 5minutes, then jumpy.
the code or numbers with discription that came up on the scan tool are......

2287-2 .. check component R9/2 (cylinder 2 glow plug) open circuit in wiring.
228B-2 .. check component R9/3 (cylinder 3 glow plug) open circuit in wiring.
2283-2 .. check component R9/1 (cylinder 1 glow plug) open circuit in wiring.

as above is as on scan tool.

i also went into live data, this shows different values on the different components on the car.
there was 2 components & values that interested me..... the map & the maf

the map was reading (on tick over warm engine) 14.5 psi & when i rev'd the car this psi increased & decreased when took foot off excelerator. this map didn't fluctuate. so im thinking all ok, +we had an audi a4 that had map issue & the symptoms are totally different. so i come to rule this out.

the other component that took my eye is the maf.
this was /is fluctuating, up & down from 0.03 - 0.04, ok its very little, but i wouldn't expect any.
we disconnected the electrical plug going to the maf & it did noting to the tick over.
it also didn't put a code on the scan tool.
but when i rev'd the car i noticed the reading went up accordingly, from 0.03 - 0.04 to 0.06 (max i seen was 0.08 & this was 1450 ish revs,.. 1470max)
so now im thinking maf.

ive looked over the net for the above codes, to cross check me. but im getting no info on the code. i know a normal code/s is p0123 & so on, but ive seen my codes above (similar 1s) on other test's on other cars i checked. i expect to find a P with 4numbers after it tho.

any you good people any idea or a view on my idea.

is it worth taking off the air cleaner filter & with the car running cleaning the air intake with some wynns cleaner, did it before on a car that was smoking & failed a nct / mot test, after using the cleaner it passed. you spray a spurt at a time into the air clear (after you take out the filter) & keeping the car at 1500 rev's, spurt it a few time's. all the crap comes out the back pipe. then when finished replace the new filter.
or is it worth cleaning the maf, (taking it off the car & spraying it with wynns air intake cleaner), i know the map can't be cleaned, but the maf...?
or just spend few quid & replace the maf.?

thanks all. sorry for the big read. only way i can explain my self in short
talk to you later.

 

[Hamodi]

Hi Whitefang,

- How is the glow plug light on the dashboard? Does it come on for few seconds then disappear like normal after starting car?
- Did you test resistance of glow plugs to make sure you didn't get sent faulty batch of glow plugs?
- All glow plug connections and control module relay ok?

I am thinking check glow plugs, control module relay and connection again as this is what your code reader is telling you.

 

[91dm]

Have you checked the injectors, can cause bad idle once carbon starts to melt and let diesel past?

 

[whitefang]

hi all.
im sorry im only replying to you now (hamodi, 91dm) i thought id of got a email or something if any 1 replied to my topic, unless i deleted it by mistake or forgot about it when im at work or something, apologies.

we got a new maf sensor unit few days ago & fitted.
this as made no difference.

does any of you know were the g/plug module is on this w211 e220 cdi 2007 facelift.?

is it under the air intake manifold,?

is it simple to take off, no silly clips.?

thanks all.

 

[whitefang]

we checked visual the injectors, nothing un-usual. did not do leak off or any test on them 91dm,
thanks your time & info.

 

[DSM10000]

If the engine is stating easily and running well until it is warming up it should be nothing to do with glow plugs or control unit surely?

 

[whitefang]

the g/plug light hamodi, yes this come's on after about 10 sec the car as started. & it starts with no problem. didn't even tho the car had a curly wiggly glow plug light, like the older cars, to start them you have to wait few secs for the light to go out then start the car.

no i dont think he (my dad) as checked for resistance on them (g/p's), the problem is just the same as before the glow plugs was changed, hence why he changed them, & its still the same so id say the g/plugs would not be the fault them selfs.

the module, he thought this was the problem part after the change of the g/plugs, but when i put my diagnostic unit to the car & seen a strange reading, a fluctuation on the live data on the maf reading's, then i put the problem down to this with the maf what linking into the glow plugs & the system. .but proves me wrong - a new change of maf sensor & still the car not perfect.

would you know were this module is by any chance mate.?

the codes as-well,
i no there is your normal codes ... P0123 for example, but ive never seen a code like the 1's ive got - above.

thanks hamodi

sorry to edit, the car is w211 2007 facelift e220 cdi 170bhp.
thanks.

 

[whitefang]

hi ya dsm10000, dont no mate, yes she starts easy, ticks over from cold really smooth, if you rev it from tick over up & down to what ever rev you want 1 tho .. 2, 3tho there's no fluctuation on the rev clock.
but after a few minutes of sitting there then there's a change - a fluctuation on the rev clock & a sound of up & down on the engine. if you drive off from cold then she runs ok. but when you stop at trafic lights (few minutes into trip) then you will see the rev clock fluctuating & a glow plug light on for very short time.

if its a relay, then id think the g/plugs wouldn't work at all. relay is a big fuse.? yes.?

i just changed my bmw530 d glow plugs, & this started really well, with 6 plugs & when we changed them & checked the old 1's, we found that 1 was not working at all. but on a 4 cylinder g/plug id say if 1 went down the car would have difficulty starting.

a faulty module, got to be sending a wrong signal to my system some how.?

thanks for input dsm10000 talk to you late mate.

 

[Hamodi]

Hi Whitefang,

Please see this thread below - they say the glow plug module is located under the inlet manifold and there is also a PDF attachment
W211 E220cdi glow plug relay location 2008

I believe some vehicle continue to use the glow plugs after starting to aid in the combustion process to get a smooth idle. Also, vehicles like my previous BMW rely on glow plugs to also perform DPF regeneration. So yes, although their main purpose is to help you start the car, they can also have other functions.

Maybe your problem is caused by something else but I think you definitely should fix the glow plug error fault which may be the relay as you already changed all the glow plugs. Maybe after you fix it then your problem could be solved. I would start by fixing this first.

 

[whitefang]

Thanks for link hamodi mate, I haven't looked over it yet, will do shortly tho.
Good find tho, ive looked fairly all over the place for some info & I can find stuff for the older modal or the 320cdi.
Talk to you later. Have good day.
Thanks...

 

[whitefang]

hi all, me again, & still about the same topic.

update, as you know we changed g/plugs, & maf. the car did work a bit better for short time, but now its time to get it good again.

so we going to change the g/plug module or relay thing under /around the intake manifold.
but have you seen the price of them?

does anyone of you now a decent price to get 1, as not got to oem or top brand, just something that works & not second hand.

the unit we have on the car at moment as part number.. A 646 153 257 9.. (apparently its after glow).

that all for any help.

 

[Smart320]

You will find that they are very sensitive to non MB original parts, my dealer , not MB , tried a cheaper one to solve similar problem after buying my ML, ran for a week then they had to replace it with a genuine part to sort it out,