W211 E220 Suspension noises - Top Mount ?

[Crazy Mike]

Hi
2002 E220 Elegance saloon.

Last year I changed the offside front Shock as it was leaking. Following the replacement, I noticed a slight creaking / graunching noise from the offside front when on hard lock (slow moving forward & reverse) which has very gradually got worse and now evident on 3/4 lock. The spring looked slightly warped on the strut so I changed this recently in the hope it would cure the graunching noise - which of course it didn't !
Earlier last year the lower outer ball joint was replaced and I have now replaced the upper suspension arm as well. The remaining joints have all been thoroughly tested both visually and with a bar and all look in good order (never can be sure though !) Checked all braking components including the disc guard for fouling but no problems there. The car drives very well with no issues with steering under normal road conditions.

So I'm thinking this could be top mount related. My understanding is that this car has no top mount bearing and I recall a rubber insert inside the mount to which the top end of the spring locates. So my question is, is it likely the top mount could be causing the noise ? There doesn't look as there is much to go wrong with the top mount in my opinion but I would welcome any thoughts on this and the probability that it could cause the noise.

Thanks

NB I have checked torque settings for the 3 strut fixing nuts, the piston nut and the strut lower mounting bolt - all ok.

 

[skemball]

Nothing on the strut rotates when turning the steering. I have experienced the same problem recently and it was the lower ball joint. That ball joint was a 'Delphi Automotive' part that I fitted in October last year and failed 2 weeks ago at less than 4,000 miles.
Water had got inside. I now have the same problem on the O/S - that ball joint was 'brand new' exactly 12 months ago when I bought the car so I have ordered 2 x Lemforder ball joints.
Symptoms I had was a squeak noise when barely moving and aggressively turning the steering from wheel left to right . Also a low heavy quiet but audible knocking noise at very slow speed (barely moving) going forwards. I found that using levers etc. on the joint did not show any movement.

 

[optimusprime]

Is this a stock Mercedes with no mods on it ? like shorter springs .

 

[Crazy Mike]

Hi
Thanks for the replies.
Optimusprime - This is a stock, standard E220 with no mods.
I'm in the process of changing (or trying to !) change the top mount. Once the strut is off the car, can you undo the 17mm piston rod nut with just a deep socket or do you need to secure the piston rod somehow to stop it turning as you undo the nut?

 

[OneForTheRoad]

Hi
Thanks for the replies.
Optimusprime - This is a stock, standard E220 with no mods.
I'm in the process of changing (or trying to !) change the top mount. Once the strut is off the car, can you undo the 17mm piston rod nut with just a deep socket or do you need to secure the piston rod somehow to stop it turning as you undo the nut?

Loosen the nut whilst the shock is on the car , just leave it on say half the threads .

 

[Crazy Mike]

Top mount now changed - All back together but knocking / clunking is still there. Hey-ho !
Noise is vey noticeable at v low speed going over the smallest bumps and also when slow braking. Looking at caliper, the 'fixed' section of the caliper is firmly attached but the floating section seems to have some play and I can replicate a knocking sound by moving the floating section by hand. Discs & pads were changed 2 years ago. Could this be the source of my knock ?
If anyone has any ideas......
Thanks

 

[Scooby2306]

Top mount now changed - All back together but knocking / clunking is still there. Hey-ho !
Noise is vey noticeable at v low speed going over the smallest bumps and also when slow braking. Looking at caliper, the 'fixed' section of the caliper is firmly attached but the floating section seems to have some play and I can replicate a knocking sound by moving the floating section by hand. Discs & pads were changed 2 years ago. Could this be the source of my knock ?
If anyone has any ideas......
Thanks

I'm having a similar problem with my vito ive changed front strut link arms lower wishbone anti roll bar bushes top mount and top bearing and the noise is still there

 

[GM87]

Noises you describe were similar on my w219… upper and lower ball joints as well as a lower arm cured it.
Also recently had some slow speed noise on the front left - wheel bearing was ok but once you really (really!) pulled on the tie rod there was the movement, so far new inner and outer has cured that.
Outside possibility is the torque on the lower arm bolts maybe - when I replaced these I remember the final torque needed done on the ground/under load which was a tight squeeze. Wouldn’t have been loosened when doing the shock?

Hope you find a fix!

 

[MJJ]

I had a dull knock/clunk from the OSF suspension on my '09 E220 for about 18 months and 12k miles. Only noticeable at lower speeds over sharp bumps. I could not see any play anywhere, nor could my local garage so I lived with it.

Then, the NSF spring snapped and I had both springs replaced. Only springs, no dampers nor top mounts. I removed the struts from the car, so I know all the mounting bolts were perfectly tight.

Bizarrely, and unexpectedly, this cured the knocking from the OSF completely. There is absolutely no logical reason why springs would cause a clunk in my mind, so I am far from recommending this as a potential solution. However, absolutely nothing else was changed and the clunk was gone.

Martin.

 

[Crazy Mike]

There's no doubt that these various suspension noises that are well written about can be a pain the a*** to locate.

I have had 2 garages look at the car on the ramps recently to try and identify the noise - which is getting worse - and no clear faulty component was able to be identified.
Over the last year the shock was changed first (leaking), followed by the spring. Then the lower outer ball joint and the upper suspension arm & ball joint. Last to change was the top mount but I now fail to see how this can actually go faulty as there is no bearing in the mount (I'm sure others may disagree !) The next culprit will be the lower suspension arm (the one the strut bolts on to) along with the anti- roll bar link and the lower inner ball joint.

I also read about experiences with failed 'new' joints but I try and use decent quality aftermarket parts (a separate debate !!) but remain aware of this possibility.

MJJ - I agree that it's unlikely a spring would cause a 'knock' but perhaps the process of removing and refitting the strut may exert slightly different stresses on suspension components (bushes etc) and possibly reduce the knock sound - just a thought ! Hope it stays silent for you.

Anyway, I will report back on any successes - hopefully.

 

[Crazy Mike]

Update - Finally got round to changing the Spring Control Arm and stabilising link for good measure and that's fixed it !
Like driving a new car. No knocks or graunching noises at all. I can turn the radio off now !
I had to make a small adjustment to the steering tie rod adjuster to align the wheels visually as best as possible but I'm taking the car to get 4 wheel alignment done fairly shortly.

As a secondary issue - the bolt that secures the Arm to the chassis is a standard bolt (no grooves) but the wheels do look cambered in a bit more than they were. Is it possible that changing the arm and using the same bolt / position could cause this or maybe it's my imagination ! I don't have a lift but torqued the Arm bolt, strut lower bolt when wheels were back on (front wheels on car ramps for access). Any thoughts ?

 

[GRTMan]

I'm a new member with a 2005 E320 W211 in standard form 120k miles and in good condition, except:

‘Clunk’ coming from LHS front suspension. January 2023 Symptoms:

• ‘Creaking clunk’ on the front left-hand suspension
• Occurs at low speed, audible up to about 20 mph
• Vehicle operates well in all other respects. Steering/handling is normal.
• ‘Creaking clunk’ is not very loud but very obvious in low speed stop start driving
• It is as if a rubber bush in the front suspension has partly failed
• To make it happen repeatedly, do this:
• Locate a straight level smooth surface road with little traffic
• With car in Drive, accelerate smoothly up to about 20-25 mph
• Then brake smoothly and gently with increasing pedal pressure;
• You hear a ‘creaking clunk’
• Ease off the brake pressure, you should hear it again,
• It usually repeats 2-3 times before the car comes to a stop.
• When the car was put on a hoist by a non-specialist garage nothing obviously loose could be found

Crazy Mike or others, any ideas what to focus on?

 

[OneForTheRoad]

I'm a new member with a 2005 E320 W211 in standard form 120k miles and in good condition, except:

‘Clunk’ coming from LHS front suspension. January 2023 Symptoms:

• ‘Creaking clunk’ on the front left-hand suspension
• Occurs at low speed, audible up to about 20 mph
• Vehicle operates well in all other respects. Steering/handling is normal.
• ‘Creaking clunk’ is not very loud but very obvious in low speed stop start driving
• It is as if a rubber bush in the front suspension has partly failed
• To make it happen repeatedly, do this:
• Locate a straight level smooth surface road with little traffic
• With car in Drive, accelerate smoothly up to about 20-25 mph
• Then brake smoothly and gently with increasing pedal pressure;
• You hear a ‘creaking clunk’
• Ease off the brake pressure, you should hear it again,
• It usually repeats 2-3 times before the car comes to a stop.
• When the car was put on a hoist by a non-specialist garage nothing obviously loose could be found

Crazy Mike or others, any ideas what to focus on?

If you intend keeping the car for alot longer , me personally would replace all the suspension parts a side at a time , otherwise your always chasing your tail. If not ,start with the cheapest parts like arb drop links and proceed from there. Don't rule out the hub ball joint ,it can knock when worn .

 

[GRTMan]

OneForTheRoad, Very helpful, thanks. I assume you mean replace all the moving connections, bushings etc. The car goes to Jordell Oxford's Merc specialist in 10 days. I'll report back the outcome. Still welcome anyone else with any tips.

 

[Crazy Mike]

Is the car going into Jordells for this suspension issue or something else ? If it's something else and you are trying to identify the problem and fix it yourself, then I would agree with the earlier post - cheapest parts first. If you want a third party to try and identify the problem, try one of the National Tyre fitting centres. If it's identifiable by checking bushes, bearings and the like then they may be able to point you in the right direction with no commitment. Let us know how you get on.

 

[GRTMan]

Crazy Mike, thanks. It is tentatively booked in for the suspension issue only, in two weeks. But I have a National Tyre fitting centre down the road, so I will go in there and ask them to have a look. Will report back.

 

[GRTMan]

I did go to National, but they didn't appear very keen to look. So I looked at AutoDoc and found a part RIDEX 273C0021 Suspension arm which matches my vehicle. Its only £50 delivered from Germany compared to £200 quoted by dealer parts department! So I've decided to gamble that this is the problem. (Some forums say the joints on the control arm go after 50-60K miles and I cant see any trace in the service log of them ever being done before.) My local independent garage has serviced the car for the last 8 years, so he'd do it. Will report back, prob in about two weeks.

 

[OneForTheRoad]

I did go to National, but they didn't appear very keen to look. So I looked at AutoDoc and found a part RIDEX 273C0021 Suspension arm which matches my vehicle. Its only £50 delivered from Germany compared to £200 quoted by dealer parts department! So I've decided to gamble that this is the problem. (Some forums say the joints on the control arm go after 50-60K miles and I cant see any trace in the service log of them ever being done before.) My local independent garage has serviced the car for the last 8 years, so he'd do it. Will report back, prob in about two weeks.

Fyi . Ridex is one of the cheapest parts manufacturers out there , don't expect it to last very long. Buy cheap buy twice.a big heavy car like the w211 will tear it to shreds in no time

£40 v £100 for lemforder .

 

[GRTMan]

Thanks. Can you suggest any other supplier less than £200?

 

[GRTMan]

Thanks. Can you suggest any other supplier less than £200?

Sorry, missed Lemforder. Will have a look. I expect car will out live me though.