What's the difference between NTG 4 and NTG 4.5

[Tsenov]

Hi everyone. I'm interested in buying a w204 facelift. I noticed that some have a yellow media and others white one. After a little digging I found out that the yellow one is NTG4 and the white - NTG 4.5. What is the difference between them, excluding the visual differences? I've tried searching what is different, but mainly see pictures and articles on how to distinguish them.

Also, I've noticed that those with NTG4.5 have white on the bottom of the dashboard and the NTG4 ones - yellow. Is there any difference as well, or is it purely visual?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Skd884]

https://car-solutions.com/en/articles-and-video/how-to-distinguish-different-mercedes-benz-multimedia-systems/

 

[OneForTheRoad]

.5 ?

 

[markjay]

Hi everyone. I'm interested in buying a w204 facelift. I noticed that some have a yellow media and others white one. After a little digging I found out that the yellow one is NTG4 and the white - NTG 4.5. What is the difference between them, excluding the visual differences? I've tried searching what is different, but mainly see pictures and articles on how to distinguish them.

Also, I've noticed that those with NTG4.5 have white on the bottom of the dashboard and the NTG4 ones - yellow. Is there any difference as well, or is it purely visual?

Thank you in advance.

This is not accurate.

Firstly, some cars have COMAND, which is the higher-end infotainment system, while others have the entry-level Audio20.

I will assume that we're talking only about COMAND, and not about Audio20.

Then, the pre-facelift W204 (2007-2010) was equipped with COMAND NTG4, while the facelift model (2011-2015) was equipped with NTG4.5. Again, this is assuming that the first owner actually specified the optional COMAND unit, otherwise the car will have the basic Audio20.

COMAND NTG4 was discontinued when the facelift model was introduced. So all facelift cars have COMAND NTG4.5 (and not NTG4).

COMAND NTG4.5 had three variants, Gen1, Gen2, and Gen3. The latest unit, the Gen3, is also known unofficially as NTG4.7.

Gen1 and Gen2 share very similar hardware, and it is possible to upgrade a Gen1 unit to Gen2 via firmware update (it's dealer or specialist job). Gen3 had different hardware, and so it's not possible to upgrade from Gen1 or Gen2 to Gen3 via a software update.

Gen1 had the brown colour scheme, which MB calls 'papyrus'. Gen2 and Gen3 had the newer silver-and-red colour scheme. You can upgrade a Gen1 papyrus to Gen2 silver-and-red by upgrading the unit from Gen1 to Gen2 (via firmware update) as described in the previous section.

The main difference between Gen1/Gen2 hardware and Gen3, is that Gen1/Gen2 units support Bluetooth tethering for Internet access only with Android phones, while Gen3 supports Bluetooth tethering with either Android or iPhone.

However, this only applies to providing Internet access to the COMAND unit, not to any other smartphone features. I.e., all the usual Bluetooth phone functions, including hands-free voice calls and audio streaming work perfectly with both iPhone and Android phone on all NTG4.5 unit, from Gen1 to Gen3.

The latest maps for COMAND NTG4.5 (it's the same maps version for all variants) is v20.0, upgrading the maps costs between £100 and £200 (depends on where you buy it from), so you might want to check what version is currently loaded to the car before buying.

Also, NTG4.5 only supported Live Traffic data from mid-2013, and that service (TomTom Live Traffic service) is no longer available from MB anyway, so in short there's currently no option for Live Traffic data on COMAND NTG4.5.

And, COMAND NTG4.5 does not have native support for Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, but this functionality can be added if required via third-party hardware.

 

[Tsenov]

This is not accurate.

Firstly, some cars have COMAND, which is the higher-end infotainment system, while others have the entry-level Audio20.

I will assume that we're talking only about COMAND, and not about Audio20.

Then, the pre-facelift W204 (2007-2010) was equipped with COMAND NTG4, while the facelift model (2011-2015) was equipped with NTG4.5. Again, this is assuming that the first owner actually specified the optional COMAND unit, otherwise the car will have the basic Audio20.

COMAND NTG4 was discontinued when the facelift model was introduced. So all facelift cars have COMAND NTG4.5 (and not NTG4).

COMAND NTG4.5 had three variants, Gen1, Gen2, and Gen3. The latest unit, the Gen3, is also known unofficially as NTG4.7.

Gen1 and Gen2 share very similar hardware, and it is possible to upgrade a Gen1 unit to Gen2 via firmware update (it's dealer or specialist job). Gen3 had different hardware, and so it's not possible to upgrade from Gen1 or Gen2 to Gen3 via a software update.

Gen1 had the brown colour scheme, which MB calls 'papyrus'. Gen2 and Gen3 had the newer silver-and-red colour scheme. You can upgrade a Gen1 papyrus to Gen2 silver-and-red by upgrading the unit from Gen1 to Gen2 (via firmware update) as described in the previous section.

The main difference between Gen1/Gen2 hardware and Gen3, is that Gen1/Gen2 units support Bluetooth tethering for Internet access only with Android phones, while Gen3 supports Bluetooth tethering with either Android or iPhone.

However, this only applies to providing Internet access to the COMAND unit, not to any other smartphone features. I.e., all the usual Bluetooth phone functions, including hands-free voice calls and audio streaming work perfectly with both iPhone and Android phone on all NTG4.5 unit, from Gen1 to Gen3.

The latest maps for COMAND NTG4.5 (it's the same maps version for all variants) is v20.0, upgrading the maps costs between £100 and £200 (depends on where you buy it from), so you might want to check what version is currently loaded to the car before buying.

Also, NTG4.5 only supported Live Traffic data from mid-2013, and that service (TomTom Live Traffic service) is no longer available from MB anyway, so in short there's currently no option for Live Traffic data on COMAND NTG4.5.

And, COMAND NTG4.5 does not have native support for Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, but this functionality can be added if required via third-party hardware.

I see, this makes so much more sense! Because all the NTG4's buttons and board just looks different and was really confused researching it.

I can't really understand the part about the internet access to the command unit. Could you please elaborate some more?

I am very thankful for your descriptive response!

 

[Chrishazle]

One major difference between Comand NTG4 and NTG4.5 is the requirement in 4.5 for map updates to need not just the update DVD's but also a PIN specific to the VIN of the car (making updates costly). With NTG4 you could use "second user" DVD's and sell them on after use (as I have done for my S204) but 4.5 you need the PIN for your car! Downside for NTG4 is that the last issued update is 2018-19, when I had my S204 HDD updated so it could accept updates later than 2015 I was told MB were still issuing NTG4 map updates, unfortunately that has not turned out to be the case - the same applies to the NTG 2.5 in my SLK280. However, many on here and t'other side have commented about how clunky, out of date and slow/expensive to update MB's Comand system is, many having opted instead to install aftermarket units or instead us something like Waze.

 

[markjay]

I see, this makes so much more sense! Because all the NTG4's buttons and board just looks different and was really confused researching it.

I can't really understand the part about the internet access to the command unit. Could you please elaborate some more?

I am very thankful for your descriptive response!

COMAND NTG4.5 was the first in a line of COMAND units that was called 'COMAND Online'.

The COMAND Online units have 'apps' and they can connect to the Internet. On early models in the COMAND Online range (NTG4.5 included), the Internet connection for the COMAND unit was provided via the driver's mobile phone. Later models relyed on a GSM modem fitted to the car.

This means that the driver's smartphone acts as a GSM modem and shares it's Internet connection with COMAND using a process called tethering. The tethering is done wirelessly over Bluetooth. You can think of it as switching on Hotspot on your mobile phone to provide wireless Internet connection to the COMAND unit (although from the technical perspective you're actually using different protocols to those you would use when hotspotting). The process is generally referred to as Bluetooth Tethering.

Gen1 and Gen2 unit only supported one rather outdated protocol for Bluetooth Tethering, called DUN (Dial-Up Networking). Android phones can connect using DUN protocol, but iPhones can't. This means that Gen1 and Gen2 units can only get their Internet connection via Android phones, but not iPhones.

Gen3, introduced in July 2013, had native support for both the older DUN protocol and also for a newer protocol called PAN (Personal Area Network). Apple iPhones support PAN, and this means that Gen3 units can use either Android phones or Apple iPhones for Bluetooth Tethering.

 

[markjay]

In terms of the Internet apps on COMAND NTG4.5, at release time it had a built-in web browser, Google Street View (so that you can what your destination looks like before you get there), a Facebook app, a weather app, an Internet radio app (linked to TuneIn Internet radio), a Google search app. And, it could take you to the local Mercedes Benz website in your country.

The web browser was discontinued recently after it became incompatible with the latest Microsoft security protocol. The Facebook app was also dropped. Google Street View and Google Search were dropped in 2015, when Apple fell-out with Google after entering into the HERE cartography consortium. That's also when the functionality of preparation navigation routes on your laptop using Google maps and sending the complete route to the car, was lost. You can still send destinations (but not complete routes) to COMAND from your PC, but only if using here.com maps. Google Search was replaced by Yelp.

Today, the only two remaining relevant apps are the weather app, and the Internet radio app.

 

[markjay]

The obvious downside of having the Internet connection in the car provided via the driver's phone, is that the car has Internet connection only while the driver is physically in the car.

This means that it's not possible to send any commands to the car while the driver is away, and also it's not possible to see the current location of the car via a mobile phone app.

(That, and the fact that the car's Internet is using the driver's mobile phone data allowance)

 

[markjay]

Well, you did ask......

 

[Tsenov]

Well, you did ask......

Thank you very much. All the explanations are greatly appreciated! Now I can finally start putting the pieces together and think on what is the best solution for me.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Sounds like the best solution is an aftermarket head unit !!

This tech gets old real quick

 

[markjay]

Sounds like the best solution is an aftermarket head unit !!

This tech gets old real quick

That, or an Apple CarPlay / Android Auto adapter.

It's pretty much a guarantee against obsolescence, and it doesn't look unsightly like some if the large-screen Android aftermarket HUs.

 

[Tsenov]

This is not accurate.

Firstly, some cars have COMAND, which is the higher-end infotainment system, while others have the entry-level Audio20.

I will assume that we're talking only about COMAND, and not about Audio20.

Then, the pre-facelift W204 (2007-2010) was equipped with COMAND NTG4, while the facelift model (2011-2015) was equipped with NTG4.5. Again, this is assuming that the first owner actually specified the optional COMAND unit, otherwise the car will have the basic Audio20.

COMAND NTG4 was discontinued when the facelift model was introduced. So all facelift cars have COMAND NTG4.5 (and not NTG4).

COMAND NTG4.5 had three variants, Gen1, Gen2, and Gen3. The latest unit, the Gen3, is also known unofficially as NTG4.7.

Gen1 and Gen2 share very similar hardware, and it is possible to upgrade a Gen1 unit to Gen2 via firmware update (it's dealer or specialist job). Gen3 had different hardware, and so it's not possible to upgrade from Gen1 or Gen2 to Gen3 via a software update.

Gen1 had the brown colour scheme, which MB calls 'papyrus'. Gen2 and Gen3 had the newer silver-and-red colour scheme. You can upgrade a Gen1 papyrus to Gen2 silver-and-red by upgrading the unit from Gen1 to Gen2 (via firmware update) as described in the previous section.

The main difference between Gen1/Gen2 hardware and Gen3, is that Gen1/Gen2 units support Bluetooth tethering for Internet access only with Android phones, while Gen3 supports Bluetooth tethering with either Android or iPhone.

However, this only applies to providing Internet access to the COMAND unit, not to any other smartphone features. I.e., all the usual Bluetooth phone functions, including hands-free voice calls and audio streaming work perfectly with both iPhone and Android phone on all NTG4.5 unit, from Gen1 to Gen3.

The latest maps for COMAND NTG4.5 (it's the same maps version for all variants) is v20.0, upgrading the maps costs between £100 and £200 (depends on where you buy it from), so you might want to check what version is currently loaded to the car before buying.

Also, NTG4.5 only supported Live Traffic data from mid-2013, and that service (TomTom Live Traffic service) is no longer available from MB anyway, so in short there's currently no option for Live Traffic data on COMAND NTG4.5.

And, COMAND NTG4.5 does not have native support for Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, but this functionality can be added if required via third-party hardware.

Okay, so I've done some more research, but still couldn't find more info on Audio20. What are the main differences between Audio20 and COMMAND? Is Audio20 still considered as NTG4.5? Because most of the cars I've checked got the papyrus scheme with no mention of COMMAND and just look the same as those with COMMAND Gen1. Are they also upgradable to Gen2?

 

[markjay]

Okay, so I've done some more research, but still couldn't find more info on Audio20. What are the main differences between Audio20 and COMMAND? Is Audio20 still considered as NTG4.5? Because most of the cars I've checked got the papyrus scheme with no mention of COMMAND and just look the same as those with COMMAND Gen1. Are they also upgradable to Gen2?

Audio20 is the entry level unit. It's is referred to as Audio20 NTG4.5 (the NTG bit signifies the product line, and is used by MB for both Audio20 and COMAND).

COMAND has built-in navigation, with the maps residing on an internal 100gb HDD. Audio20 does not have navigation, but you can add it by fitting the optional Becker Map Pilot unit in the glovebox. However, the Becker Map Pilot navigation software isn't as good as that of COMAND.

Audio20 has smaller low-res display, while COMAND has a larger high-res display.

Audio20 has very basic sound, COMAND has a much better amplifier (though to hear the difference you'll need to upgrade the original speakers to something better, the factory speakers are very poor).

You can tell whether it's Audio20 or COMAND in several ways:

- COMAND has an SD-Card slot, Audio20 doesn't.

- COMAND has a larger screen, Audio20 has a smaller screen (and a larger black bezel).

- When switching on the car, COMAND will say "Don't let COMAND distract you...", Audio20 will say "Don't let the SYSTEM distract you..."

- Run the VIN in an online VIN decoder, and check the codes in the 5xx region.

 

[markjay]

Also, on 2013 and 2014 W204 cars, COMAND was part of an option pack that included also Road Sign Recognition via a front facing camera behind the rear view mirror (useless feature), and a revere camera (very useful feature). This may have been the case also for earlier cars (2011-2012), but I am not sure.

 

[TC350]

Also, on 2013 and 2014 W204 cars, COMAND was part of an option pack that included also Road Sign Recognition via a front facing camera behind the rear view mirror (useless feature), and a revere camera (very useful feature). This may have been the case also for earlier cars (2011-2012), but I am not sure.

My 2012 W204 with COMAND came with Speed Limit Sign Recognition (sometimes useful) but a reverse camera was a paid for option.

 

[markjay]

My 2012 W204 with COMAND came with Speed Limit Sign Recognition (sometimes useful) but a reverse camera was a paid for option.

BTW, I didn't mean to say that the MB Road Sign Recognition system was useless, just that (I find that) this feature is useless in general.

I had it on several other cars, including currently on my Hyundai, and I call it the 'QWERTY Syndrome'.

The system of road signs was originally designed to be viewed and understood by humans equipped with eyes and brains.

A hundred years later, we build computers equipped with cameras and sophisticated 'AI' software, to scan these signs made for humans, analyse them and try to figure out what they mean, then translate it to digital language that the car's computer understands.

Why? (MJ cries in despair). Computers understand digital language. Why not just feed them with the information in digital language, instead of building complex system that tries to mimic the human eye and the human brain?

My Waze shows the correct speed limit, without a camera and an AI processor - it gets it from the network. And, it's always more accurate than what the car's front-facing camera behind the rearview mirror manages to pick-up.

You could argue that when these systems came on the market just over ten years ago, cars had no 3g/4g/5g, weren't connected to anything. But we're in 2023... and my all-singing all-dancing full-electric Hyundai IONIQ 5 still has it. Of course, it is rarely right (and can't read the '20' marks on the asphalt, which are everywhere in London).

And, it argues with the car's navigation system.... the other day I was driving down the M11 using the car's satnav that does get speed limit info online from the network, when I drove by a roadworks lay-by with a '10 mph' sign. The Road Signs Recognition system picked it up, and started warning me that I was going 60mph over the limit. But it wasn't arguing with me... instead, the car was arguing with itself. The car was on auto-pilot, and its driving speed was set automatically by the info downloaded from network in real time, therefore it was (correctly) travelling at 70mph. The Road Signs Recognition system, having picked up the '10 mph' road sign, didn't seem to know that the car was on auto-pilot... and was obviously not aware of the speed limit provided by the network

But I digress..

 

[TC350]

BTW, I didn't mean to say that the MB Road Sign Recognition system was useless, just that (I find that) this feature is useless in general.

I had it on several other cars, including currently on my Hyundai, and I call it the 'QWERTY Syndrome'.

The system of road signs was originally designed to be viewed and understood by humans equipped with eyes and brains.

A hundred years later, we build computers equipped with cameras and sophisticated 'AI' software, to scan these signs made for humans, analyse them and try to figure out what they mean, then translate it to digital language that the car's computer understands.

Why? (MJ cries in despair). Computers understand digital language. Why not just feed them with the information in digital language, instead of building complex system that tries to mimic the human eye and the human brain?

My Waze shows the correct speed limit, without a camera and an AI processor - it gets it from the network. And, it's always more accurate than what the car's front-facing camera behind the rearview mirror manages to pick-up.

You could argue that when these systems came on the market just over ten years ago, cars had no 3g/4g/5g, weren't connected to anything. But we're in 2023... and my all-singing all-dancing full-electric Hyundai IONIQ 5 still has it. Of course, it is rarely right (and can't read the '20' marks on the asphalt, which are everywhere in London).

And, it argues with the car's navigation system.... the other day I was driving down the M11 using the car's satnav that does get speed limit info online from the network, when I drove by a roadworks lay-by with a '10 mph' sign. The Road Signs Recognition system picked it up, and started warning me that I was going 60mph over the limit. But it wasn't arguing with me... instead, the car was arguing with itself. The car was on auto-pilot, and its driving speed was set automatically by the info downloaded from network in real time, therefore it was (correctly) travelling at 70mph. The Road Signs Recognition system, having picked up the '10 mph' road sign, didn't seem to know that the car was on auto-pilot... and was obviously not aware of the speed limit provided by the network

But I digress..

I find the Speed Limit Assist (I just looked in the C-Class brochure for the correct title) useful as confirmation of what I believe the limit to be. This mostly helps when the speed limit varies on overhead gantries or passing through roadworks. But as you say, it does sometimes get confused by reading speed limit signs on adjacent roads

BTW, it doesn't rely solely on what the camera sees, it compares those readings with map data from the navigation system. (The nav system data is also there to calculate estimated arrival times.)

 

[markjay]

I find the Speed Limit Assist (I just looked in the C-Class brochure for the correct title) useful as confirmation of what I believe the limit to be. This mostly helps when the speed limit varies on overhead gantries or passing through roadworks. But as you say, it does sometimes get confused by reading speed limit signs on adjacent roads

BTW, it doesn't rely solely on what the camera sees, it compares those readings with map data from the navigation system. (The nav system data is also there to calculate estimated arrival times.)

Understood, my point however is that Waze manages to be more accurate without all this additional technology in the car.... surely developing a computerised system that reads signs meant for human is a pointless exercise.... for example, why not just put a small transmitter on every road sign for approaching cars to receive? Or, put a large QR code under each speed sign making it easy for the car to read, etc. Again, my bigger issue here is with the concept that says that we develop systems to convert data to digital, when the data is already available in digital format. There are many other examples where we do that, but that's totally OT