2.2CDI vs 3.0CDI Engines

[TheJoker]

Dear esteemed panel,

I'm sorry if this has been debated before, but I don't really know what to search for. Please point me in the direct direction if this has been discussed before.

I'm wondering about the differences between the 2.2 CDI engine and the 3.0CDI engines, the ones in the Vito/Viano more specifically. They're 150bhp and 204bhp respectively.

More precisely I'm interested in service intervals (they're "smart" aren't they on both engines?!). Cam belt (I'm assuming it's a belt?!) change intervals and naturally cost of doing so. There's no valve clearance (hydraulic lifters I'm assuming again?!) to worry about?!

Basically I'm concerned that might be a huge difference between the long term running costs between the engines.

Please forgive my obvious ignorance as I'm very new to Mercedes. Well, I will hopefully be new to Mercedes in the soon to be future.

And whilst here bugging you; what's the concensus on the 5 speed automatic vs the 6 speed manual? Servicing costs? Longevity?

Any help much apprecaited!

 

[st4]

2.2 is a 4clynder engine. 3.0 is a v6 engine. 2.2 is less powerful/more economical.

 

[TheJoker]

2.2 is a 4clynder engine. 3.0 is a v6 engine. 2.2 is less powerful/more economical.

Yes. I know.

And for the future of the thread, I know the price difference in purchases, I know the price difference in fuel consumption.

What I don't know (Mercedes seem very quiet about this in the sales material) is how much it costs to service the two different engines, and what service they need. For example one engine might need to come out of the car to have its cambelt(s) sercviced and thus doing this it's much more costly. The V6 will probably need two cambelts, or a very long one which thus might be much more expensive. One engine might need the cambelts changed at 40,000 miles, the other one at 90,000 miles - i.e one is twice as expensive.
If they even have cam belts, they might have cam chains. They might have hydraulic adjusters that need to be changed sometime. Or the manual tensioner might need adjusting between changing...

 

[st4]

All MB engines are chain driven. The engines are on the Assyst system and its about 12-15k miles service intervals

 

[TheJoker]

All MB engines are chain driven. The engines are on the Assyst system and its about 12-15k miles service intervals

Thank you! Yes, "Assyst" is the name for my clumsily named "smart". Am I right to then assume that there's no real consumables within the engine? Obviously there's no spark plugs, and now I know there's no cam belt. I'm assuming things like glow plugs should last past 100,000 miles and so forth. Naturally auxillary belts etc. like to be changed once in a while if they start cracking up, but that's nothing internal to the engine.

We like cam chains!

 

[wemorgan]

If you're after exact service costs I'd recommend phoning a local dealer for prices.
I'd also consider how loaded the car/van is and how fast you drive. The V6 will surely have greater longevity if the car is fully laden and you're doing 100mph on the autobahn,

 

[rpe2]

I think that the servicing costs of each engine are much of a muchness, the V6 will give more power/ driveability etc...

As you note, I think your only concern will be down to purchase price/ MPG.

Richard

 

[st4]

If you're after exact service costs I'd recommend phoning a local dealer for prices.
I'd also consider how loaded the car/van is and how fast you drive. The V6 will surely have greater longevity if the car is fully laden and you're doing 100mph on the autobahn,

Most 6 clyinder engines will outlive a 4 pot regardless of load...the idea of 100mph in a 4pot van doesn't seem appealing either

For the OP injectors are probably consumable as they do fail from time to time. This is when the "millers power sport" argument comes into play as many who run CDi engines who use it have never had to replace injectors.

 

[TheJoker]

If you're after exact service costs I'd recommend phoning a local dealer for prices.
I'd also consider how loaded the car/van is and how fast you drive. The V6 will surely have greater longevity if the car is fully laden and you're doing 100mph on the autobahn,

Thanks very much Will! The background for my questions is that I'm hoping to keep this prospective car for a long time (10 years, more?! ). Therefgore I don't really think that current servicing costs are very relevant, but I do want to know how far into the future I can expect the car to "just run". Under normal servicing of course.

Given the same(ish) service costs, I would love to have the V6. "Leisurely" doing 80mph on continental Europe with two motorcycles in the back + the obligatory kitchen sink is the intended purpose.

 

[TheJoker]

I think that the servicing costs of each engine are much of a muchness, the V6 will give more power/ draveability etc...

As you note, I think your only concern will be down to purchase price/ MPG.

Thanks Richard! Much appreciated!
Given that the 2.2 Auto is in the same tax bracket as the 3.0 V6 Auto I was hoping that purchase price and MPG would be the only difference. Funnily the 2.2 Manual is just sneaking under the £400 tax. Viano that is.

 

[st4]

A V6 engine should be okay for over 300k miles before anything major internally. Running it with decent fuel (not supermarket crap) not thrashing it until its warm and the occasional italian MOT when its upto temp and it should be fine.

There was a long thread earlier about V6 vans, is that sorted now?

 

[TheJoker]

Most 6 clyinder engines will outlive a 4 pot regardless of load...the idea of 100mph in a 4pot van doesn't seem appealing either

For the OP injectors are probably consumable as they do fail from time to time. This is when the "millers power sport" argument comes into play as many who run CDi engines who use it have never had to replace injectors.

Excellent! I think I can live with replacing a few injectors here n there. From what I've read this shouldn't be such a costly thing to do. And I'm comparing this to the 80,000 mile cam belt change on a V6 3.5l petrol Espace (which I luckily don't have!!) where the engine has to come out to.

No wonder this Vito/Viano is more and more tempting! :bannana:
Thanks!

 

[TheJoker]

A V6 engine should be okay for over 300k miles before anything major internally. Running it with decent fuel (not supermarket crap) not thrashing it until its warm and the occasional italian MOT when its upto temp and it should be fine.

There was a long thread earlier about V6 vans, is that sorted now?

WOW! 300K miles. I've read through the aforementioned V6 thread, and it seems to have died down and no new such has popped up, so I'm hoping it has been sorted. :bannana: :bannana: BTB 500 aslo seems to agree with that.

Much appreciated!

 

[wemorgan]

In 2004 I had a company car allowance and wanted to buy my own car with the money. I downloaded a spreadsheet of the running costs for most UK cars from Fleet News, based on 30k per year keeping it for 3 years. Here's some ppm costs for the E-class, though the cost of fuel has changed since then.

Model, depreciation,servicing, fuel, total
2.1 E 220 Elegance CDI 4dr Auto, 19.42, 3.38, 9.17, 31.97
3.2 E 320 Elegance CDI 4dr Auto, 22.02, 3.45, 9.46, 34.93

So basically the servicing costs between the two engines is minimal

PM your email address if you'd like me to send this spreadsheet to you.

 

[TheJoker]

In 2004 I had a company car allowance and wanted to buy my own car with the money. I downloaded a spreadsheet of the running costs for most UK cars from Fleet News, based on 30k per year keeping it for 3 years. Here's some ppm costs for the E-class, though the cost of fuel has changed since then.

Model, depreciation,servicing, fuel, total
2.1 E 220 Elegance CDI 4dr Auto, 19.42, 3.38, 9.17, 31.97
3.2 E 320 Elegance CDI 4dr Auto, 22.02, 3.45, 9.46, 34.93

So basically the servicing costs between the two engines is minimal

PM your email address if you'd like me to send this spreadsheet to you.

Thanks for that. I think I'm not esteemed enough to be able to do PMs (or I've turned very daft since registering). I did however venture over to Fleet News and managed to download a CSV file that I'll now pop into my spreadsheet application and have a look. Thanks!

 

[crockers]

Not sure about vans - but in the C Class the 3.0 comes with a 7 speed auto whereas the 2.2 comes with a 5 speeder.

I have had 6 new glowplugs in mine...2 failed so i replaced all 6 - not much in cost £14 each..but its the labour ...

Love the power of it ..but dont use it to its fullest...

 

[TheJoker]

Not sure about vans - but in the C Class the 3.0 comes with a 7 speed auto whereas the 2.2 comes with a 5 speeder.

I have had 6 new glowplugs in mine...2 failed so i replaced all 6 - not much in cost £14 each..but its the labour ...

Love the power of it ..but dont use it to its fullest...

Thanks crockers! I think I can bear £14... any chance of getting an approximate figure of the labour and diagnosis cost?

The vans (Vito/Viano) have the 5 speed automatic box. I think it's rated for higher torque, but I might be wrong.

 

[BTB 500]

In the Vito/Viano the V6 CDI has the 5-speed auto as standard, it's an option on the 2.2 engine(s).

A dog training friend of mine has a Vito Dualiner with the 4-pot engine (I forget which version, I think it's the 115 i.e. 150 bhp) and auto gearbox. The fuel consumption is not a lot better than my V6 ... the best she's had is 37 mpg, and she's not a fast driver. Ours just edges over 30 mpg on a long run at around 75 mph.

The major plus of the V6 is the reduced noise/harshness at motorway speeds. Partly this is down to the engine design (6 cyls instead of 4), but also you are using far less of the power available (top speed for the V6 is over 120 mph).

 

[BTB 500]

I think I'm not esteemed enough to be able to do PMs

You should be able to now - as an 'anti spamming' measure the PM facility only becomes active after you've made 30 posts.

 

[TheJoker]

Thanks for the info, BTB 500!

In the Vito/Viano the V6 CDI has the 5-speed auto as standard, it's an option on the 2.2 engine(s).

On the Vianos the 2.2l has got auto as standard on the Ambiente models, and manual on the Trend models. According to the broschure next to me.