212 Facelift 2013 - what i'd ask for

[Ash]

More vaguely informative pics here Big changes for Mercedes E-class | Autocar

The focus seems to be on styling and some interior mods... oh and new petrol engines, for that niche market

All i'd ask for, as a relatively happy owner, is less tyre roar. And i've only got an Avtgde, not a Sport (seems to be the biggest seller), which will be worse still.

Anyone agree with me on the tyre noise? It's worse than my 211. I'm thinking of getting busy with some Dynamat, which is ridiculous on a premium car. What would you specify?

Ash
ps It doesn't look as if they're bringing the 5 speed auto back, which i know will be a set back for some forum regulars.

 

[developer]

Externally.
To be less ordinary, it's almost non descript, particularly in the face of the F10 5 series BMW.

Internally.
To get some cohesion - the dash is a mess of angles looking like it was designed by a number of people in different studios.

 

[BigSilverEstate]

+1 on the tyre noise, on certain surfaces it is extremely loud. Though this must be difficult to avoid on 18" wheels.

I would like to see a V8 diesel or a 300bhp+ V6 challenger to the best from Audi and BMW, but I know this is not going to come out of the E class facelift.

 

[developer]

i entirely agree - there must be something coming along soon.

 

[st4]

i entirely agree - there must be something coming along soon.

The AMG model is out now if you need a more powerful car, or a cooking 500.

 

[Fady]

Externally.
To be less ordinary, it's almost non descript, particularly in the face of the F10 5 series BMW.

Internally.
To get some cohesion - the dash is a mess of angles looking like it was designed by a number of people in different studios.

Funny that - I've got both sitting on my driveway, I don't see a stark difference in visual appeal, but then it's in the eye of the beholder I guess.

No issue with the dash either, but then again, got used to sitting in one by now.

I find the HK system disappointing with anything other than the ipod connection and don't know why that has to be. I have been up and down the scales and can't seem to get any improvement (the Logic 7 setting is totally pointless imho), so improvements there. The other humble request I would make is for a footrest, but that's about it.

+1 on the tyre noise, on certain surfaces it is extremely loud. Though this must be difficult to avoid on 18" wheels.

I would like to see a V8 diesel or a 300bhp+ V6 challenger to the best from Audi and BMW, but I know this is not going to come out of the E class facelift.

I never drive in complete silence, so tyre noise is never an issue.

There used to be turbo-related reliability issues, i.e. expensive to fix, with the BMW F60 535d. And the problem doesn't seem to have gone away in the F10. You hear the odd story of a blown turbo on a car with virtually no miles on, which is enough to make one have a re-think. When you start looking in that territory, it's as well to just look at the big petrol engines since there's proven technology there. I can't stomach E63 running costs/residuals and would rather spend the money on my other interests, so for me the performance diesel is the best compromise. The W211 V8 E400 CDI always sounded interesting but Mercedes haven't taken that any further - the W212 E350 CDI seems to be on par with this performance-wise.

 

[Ash]

Externally.
To be less ordinary, it's almost non descript, particularly in the face of the F10 5 series BMW.

Internally.
To get some cohesion - the dash is a mess of angles looking like it was designed by a number of people in different studios.

Agree. My guess is that MB has lost customers to BMW, especially to the F10 520 estate. It has had better reviews, is better priced (until you spec it) and, i agree, it looks more cohesive. This must be the brief for the face-lift.

Personally i need the bigger boot of the E class, having just driven family down to Cornwall with the boot stacked - had to give the auto closing tailgate a bit of a hand.
Ash

 

[gIzzE]

Fady and Ash, what tyres are you using?

On Contis the noise is terrible, on Michelins it is far quieter.


The materials in the 212 need an upgrade, the seats need to be better too, they need to go lower and have more adjustment on the base angle.
Plus they really need to sort of the instrument binnacle height, it is just far too high, around 3" too high, you can't get a proper driving position set up and see the cluster at the same time, a serious design issue imho and was the main reason for me wanting out of mine.

Mine was the estate and the cabin noise in general was not good, certainly not what you expect from a Merc, and not from their E Class which is all about luxury and comfort.
It was not just tyres though, something more than that.

 

[st4]

Fady and Ash, what tyres are you using?

On Contis the noise is terrible, on Michelins it is far quieter.


The materials in the 212 need an upgrade, the seats need to be better too, they need to go lower and have more adjustment on the base angle.
Plus they really need to sort of the instrument binnacle height, it is just far too high, around 3" too high, you can't get a proper driving position set up and see the cluster at the same time, a serious design issue imho and was the main reason for me wanting out of mine.

Mine was the estate and the cabin noise in general was not good, certainly not what you expect from a Merc, and not from their E Class which is all about luxury and comfort.
It was not just tyres though, something more than that.

All of this I agree with apart from the noise.

I was leant a W212 sport with Pirelli P Zeros on it and it was quiet, handled way better than a 211 and rode a lot better.

The seating and high dash I agree with, its a dire design.

Trim wise, is better than my W204, but not by much. I really see the C and E class as quite similar cars (W204 and W212). The W212 really is a big C class, slightly less agile, slightly more hushed and a bit more room at the back.

The S class is what you want if luxury is the out and out concern.

 

[gIzzE]

All of this I agree with apart from the noise.

I was leant a W212 sport with Pirelli P Zeros on it and it was quiet, handled way better than a 211 and rode a lot better.

P Zeroes are very quiet tyres, put them on my 535d and the noise drop was astonishing, in fact that was the first time I ever even considered tyre noise.

Also I think the estate amplifies noise on the 212, we often used to think a window was not quite shut, it was very loud.

 

[st4]

Estate models are always more noisy. The passanger compartment in a saloon is sealed away from the back wheel, in an estate, the passanger compartment goes over the back wheel. You know what i mean.

The 212 is a very slippery car, the lack of wind noise is astounding, even at well over 100mph (I took it to Germany officer). In saying that, I've noticed my 204 is more quiet at speed wind noise anyway and more planted than my 211. Progress.

But if you want quiet, get an S class. I've been cutting around in my old mans, thats quiet LOL

 

[Mactech]

P Zeroes are very quiet tyres, put them on my 535d and the noise drop was astonishing, in fact that was the first time I ever even considered tyre noise.

Also I think the estate amplifies noise on the 212, we often used to think a window was not quite shut, it was very loud.

E tyres now allow you to grade your tyres choice by noise. It's interesting to see the Vrediestein and Dunlop Sport Max good on the noise front. Check it out, see if you agree with what seems to have been measured

tyres online @ mytyres.co.uk: tyre dealer for cheap passenger, summer, winter tyres

The old Goodyear FI is rated as quite quiet, but not so good on rolling resistance. Confirms my experience!
I may have a wheel and tyre fetish, but they can make or break (or is that brake?) any car!

 

[Ash]

Fady and Ash, what tyres are you using?

On Contis the noise is terrible, on Michelins it is far quieter.


The materials in the 212 need an upgrade, the seats need to be better too, they need to go lower and have more adjustment on the base angle.
Plus they really need to sort of the instrument binnacle height, it is just far too high, around 3" too high, you can't get a proper driving position set up and see the cluster at the same time, a serious design issue imho and was the main reason for me wanting out of mine.

Mine was the estate and the cabin noise in general was not good, certainly not what you expect from a Merc, and not from their E Class which is all about luxury and comfort.
It was not just tyres though, something more than that.

I agree - it's noisier than the 211 i had, also an estate, but the Elegance so narrower, taller tyres. I'm using Contis funnily enough. Interesting that you say they are noisier. I've just checked out mytyres.co.uk - worryingly their suggestions, based on my registration plate, are for a Vauxhall Meriva not an e250avtgde. It's the SE CDTI version which sounds quite posh but vaguely worrying...
Ash

 

[gIzzE]

I may have a wheel and tyre fetish, but they can make or break (or is that brake?) any car!

I'm the same, after buying an M3 CSL with Pilot Sports on the front and Pilot Sport 2s on the rears really woke me up to how much the can mess your car up.
I hate to admit this, but I didn't notice the fronts were 1's and the rears 2's, swapped shocks, springs, bushes, control arms and still it was a twitchy dangerous mess.
Then someone who races them was at BMW and took it out, we went down the slip road onto the A47 and came off the ringland roundabout and left and then sharp right, he pulled over and said "You've got mismatched tyres on!"
Everyone had missed it, and I don't think the BMW techs would have even considered it.

I then played around with loads of different combos and was amazed at how much they changed the car, probably amplified by the csl, but just showed me how difference they make.

Now a complete convert.

 

[BigSilverEstate]

The AMG model is out now if you need a more powerful car, or a cooking 500.

Yes but it is a big step to commit to the AMG models - particularly in terms of cost but also in terms of image, as you are into toys for boys territory whereas with something like the 535d you can maintain some pretense of having made the purchase for 'sensible' reasons.

I didn't think the E500 was still available in the UK? Not many of them around in the 212 shape used either.

 

[st4]

Yes but it is a big step to commit to the AMG models - particularly in terms of cost but also in terms of image, as you are into toys for boys territory whereas with something like the 535d you can maintain some pretense of having made the purchase for 'sensible' reasons.

I saw an 18month old E63 saloon in May at MB Brooklands for £47k. A 535d will cost approx that. A 535d is more efficient but we get lots of posts of people saying how their (already very powerful diesel engined) cars aren't powerful enough, well there is an answer to those issues here and now rather than awaiting Mercedes to build a higher powered diesel model. A 535d will use less fuel but then again its not as fast. You cannot have both.

On a 212 E50 Brabus chip it to 313bhp, thats plenty fast, and if it isn't, there is the AMG range.

I didn't think the E500 was still available in the UK? Not many of them around in the 212 shape used either.

Not many, but you can get them

 

[BigSilverEstate]

Lol that E63 had lost what 25k in 18 months, afraid I will not be getting on that train in the foreseeable future! For me it's not dissatisfaction with the existing 265 horses, just thinking what might entice me to trade up in 2-3 years when the time comes

 

[Fady]

Fady and Ash, what tyres are you using?

On Contis the noise is terrible, on Michelins it is far quieter.


The materials in the 212 need an upgrade, the seats need to be better too, they need to go lower and have more adjustment on the base angle.
Plus they really need to sort of the instrument binnacle height, it is just far too high, around 3" too high, you can't get a proper driving position set up and see the cluster at the same time, a serious design issue imho and was the main reason for me wanting out of mine.

Mine was the estate and the cabin noise in general was not good, certainly not what you expect from a Merc, and not from their E Class which is all about luxury and comfort.
It was not just tyres though, something more than that.

I've the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A's in 18's (though tyres are a sore point at this very moment as I've just discovered a tack in a rear too near the edge to be repairable ). But as previously stated, tyre noise is not something that I have ever had a concern about in any car.

Yes but it is a big step to commit to the AMG models - particularly in terms of cost but also in terms of image, as you are into toys for boys territory whereas with something like the 535d you can maintain some pretense of having made the purchase for 'sensible' reasons.

I didn't think the E500 was still available in the UK? Not many of them around in the 212 shape used either.

The Autocar article makes mention of a new twin-turbo 4.7 litre V8 for the E500 - so I guess it will be re-appearing.

 

[gIzzE]

I've the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A's in 18's (though tyres are a sore point at this very moment as I've just discovered a tack in a rear too near the edge to be repairable ). But as previously stated, tyre noise is not something that I have ever had a concern about in any car.

I had the runflat verion of those in 17" on Fiona's 320d M-Sport touring, and I was very impressed, so much so on the way home I pulled over to check if they were actually run flats or not.
So a proper, non run flat, version I would expect good things from.

 

[gIzzE]

So Ash is using Contis and has a problem with noise, everyone else who hasn't says it is fine.
I was the same, Contis noisy, Michelins were quiet.

I would try and swap tyres, those Contis are cropping up on a few forums as noisy after only a few thousand miles.