Another depressing day for "Classics" at Historics this weekend

[190]

Average 0-60 times for modern traffic would be less than 10 seconds - half that of the Escort.

The average modern car may be capable of 0-60 in under 10 secs but it's rare for cars in modern traffic conditions to accelerate that fast. Who uses full bore acceleration in traffic other than boy racers. There are always going to be drivers that want to exceed the speed limit and bully the car in front. They are the source of danger, not the driver of a 70's Escort.

The average EV is capable of accelerating faster than the average ICE. Does that mean if I drive an ICE I'm holding them up on a daily basis. In practice I don't think it does but even if it did it I wouldn't be concerned about it.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

It's in the engineers' DNA.

As is the tuning of the engine and exhaust notes. Ian Tyrrell nailed it when he said "An engine is basically a wind instrument". The Italians understand that concept like no other nation.

I love the sounds from the flat 4s I had. The Busso is, of course, sonically epic. I also love the TwinSpark - when it came out I was expecting another modern droning 4 pot. Oh no, they managed to squeeze all sorts of tunes from it. Fantastic soundtrack.

I’ve got one of these on mine, except the rear section is an unsilenced Autodelta. It does sound wonderful - it has the same sound character as stock, but turned up a notch!

Alfaholics system

I agree - even the TS has a characterful sound, really fizzy!

 

[Bellow]

Both would do a decent job in modern traffic, which a 70's Escort or Marina wouldn't.

You've obviously not driven a BDA Escort...

 

[ChrisHGTV]

You've obviously not driven a BDA Escort...

Ahh the sound of the BDA!

 

[SpikyMikey]

It's in the engineers' DNA.

As is the tuning of the engine and exhaust notes. Ian Tyrrell nailed it when he said "An engine is basically a wind instrument". The Italians understand that concept like no other nation.

There's a guy round the corner from us who has smart little Abarth 595.
Completely factory standard but sounds fabulous for a 4 pot turbo.

 

[Bellow]

Ahh the sound of the BDA!

If you can't have a DFV, then half of one is still plenty good enough!
A mate had a Mk1 Escort RS1600 mildly tweaked to 180hp that I briefly drove. Its rev counter needle was on a mission to pummel its stop at the other end of the dial at every opportunity.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Ahh the sound of the BDA!

Luckily the music of the BDA/BDG engine can still be heard on forest rally stages throughout the land.

 

[Will]

The average modern car may be capable of 0-60 in under 10 secs but it's rare for cars in modern traffic conditions to accelerate that fast. Who uses full bore acceleration in traffic other than boy racers. There are always going to be drivers that want to exceed the speed limit and bully the car in front. They are the source of danger, not the driver of a 70's Escort.

The average EV is capable of accelerating faster than the average ICE. Does that mean if I drive an ICE I'm holding them up on a daily basis. In practice I don't think it does but even if it did it I wouldn't be concerned about it.

I’m not sure 10 seconds 0-60 is rare though?

Sure there’s always been boy racers (even in the 1970s no doubt!) but being realistic an old 1970s Escort is going to be like a red flag to a bull for a daily driver. Who would want to be stuck behind something taking almost 20 seconds to reach 60mph whilst belching out exhaust fumes!

And of course, the figure quoted by Bill of 19.1 seconds would naturally be full bore acceleration too - I’m not sure an old Escort would last long being driven daily like that either! What would the typical figure be if the driver was changing up as per a ‘normal’ drive - 30+ seconds?

 

[BTB 500]

Accelerating from 0-60 is relatively unusual in normal everyday driving. And as @190 mentioned few people would ever do this as fast as their car is capable of anyway. Even if they want to there may well be a truck/bus/van/whatever somewhere in front preventing it. As previously mentioned, many of these older cars were actually quite brisk up to 30 or 40 mph due to their low kerbweight and low gearing. Which is fine for a large percentage of road driving. The 0-60 figure reflects the fact that they start to run out of puff at higher speeds as drag increases (and the fact that they only have 4 gears).

In my personal experience anyway, having owned & run a number of 1970s 'family cars' and driven a fair few more as pool cars at work.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

I’m not sure 10 seconds 0-60 is rare though?

Sure there’s always been boy racers (even in the 1970s no doubt!) but being realistic an old 1970s Escort is going to be like a red flag to a bull for a daily driver. Who would want to be stuck behind something taking almost 20 seconds to reach 60mph whilst belching out exhaust fumes!

And of course, the figure quoted by Bill of 19.1 seconds would naturally be full bore acceleration too - I’m not sure an old Escort would last long being driven daily like that either! What would the typical figure be if the driver was changing up as per a ‘normal’ drive - 30+ seconds?

To be honest I’d take a 70’s Escort over an electric Yaris any day! And I’m not even a Ford man!

I’m only half joking!

 

[ChrisHGTV]

There's a guy round the corner from us who has smart little Abarth 595.
Completely factory standard but sounds fabulous for a 4 pot turbo.

We had one, they do sound good. Ours especially in later years as most of the rear resonator had rusted/flaked off so it was only about a mm thick and single skin!

 

[ChrisHGTV]

If you can't have a DFV, then half of one is still plenty good enough!
A mate had a Mk1 Escort RS1600 mildly tweaked to 180hp that I briefly drove. Its rev counter needle was on a mission to pummel its stop at the other end of the dial at every opportunity.

There are some great vids on YouTube with BDA powered rally escorts - with insane rev limits!

 

[Will]

Accelerating from 0-60 is relatively unusual in normal everyday driving. And as @190 mentioned few people would ever do this as fast as their car is capable of anyway. Even if they want to there may well be a truck/bus/van/whatever somewhere in front preventing it. As previously mentioned, many of these older cars were actually quite brisk up to 30 or 40 mph due to their low kerbweight and low gearing. Which is fine for a large percentage of road driving. The 0-60 figure reflects the fact that they start to run out of puff at higher speeds as drag increases (and the fact that they only have 4 gears).

In my personal experience anyway, having owned & run a number of 1970s 'family cars' and driven a fair few more as pool cars at work.

The 0-60/62 figure is a relatively good metric though for comparing performance acceleration wise.

I don’t think you quite got my point - if it takes 19.1 seconds to reach 60mph in the Escort, then that would be at full bore/red lining the engine. If you were driving far more moderately, changing gear at maybe half revs or so, you’d probably be taking 30 seconds or something to reach 60. That’s still going to be quite a long time to reach 40mph.

At a set of lights, as everyone else pulls away normally (again changing up at half revs or whatever), unless it’s being red lined through the gears the Escort would be holding traffic up, and on a daily basis I’d wager normal traffic flow would be impeded with it accelerating far more moderately.

Therefore quite a few people would naturally want to pass. I mean whether or not 0-60mph is typical, you’d certainly be accelerating to 40 or 50 joining larger roads from traffic light junctions etc.

Same as people are keen to get past cyclists, milk floats, tractors in the countryside etc where it’s safe and appropriate - I don’t think it’s all about boy racers.

This is not to say an old Escort can’t be driven on the roads, but to make out the performance is not behind average traffic 50+ years later on is ridiculous, IMHO

 

[BTB 500]

The 0-60/62 figure is a relatively good metric though for comparing performance acceleration wise.

But only up to that speed. I've already explained why/how a light car (half the weight of a modern equivalent) can accelerate quicker to more typical road speeds than you might think from the 0-60 time.

This is not to say an old Escort can’t be driven on the roads, but to make out the performance is not behind average traffic 50+ years later on is ridiculous, IMHO

Plenty of modern vehicles (or their drivers) will be slower. Panel vans (not exactly a rare sight) don't generally accelerate very fast and of course are restricted to 50 mph on NSL single carriageways. Never mind buses/coaches/HGVs/OAPs in Daihatsus/etc., and yes cyclists/scooters/mopeds/milk floats/tractors as well.

 

[BIGDOG]

Accelerating from 0-60 is relatively unusual in normal everyday driving. And as @190 mentioned few people would ever do this as fast as their car is capable of anyway. Even if they want to there may well be a truck/bus/van/whatever somewhere in front preventing it. As previously mentioned, many of these older cars were actually quite brisk up to 30 or 40 mph due to their low kerbweight and low gearing. Which is fine for a large percentage of road driving. The 0-60 figure reflects the fact that they start to run out of puff at higher speeds as drag increases (and the fact that they only have 4 gears).

In my personal experience anyway, having owned & run a number of 1970s 'family cars' and driven a fair few more as pool cars at work.

Pah!

Every time I leave a toll booth on the autoroute/autopisla.

 

[Will]

But only up to that speed. I've already explained why/how a light car (half the weight of a modern equivalent) can accelerate quicker to more typical road speeds than you might think from the 0-60 time.



Plenty of modern vehicles (or their drivers) will be slower. Panel vans (not exactly a rare sight) don't generally accelerate very fast and of course are restricted to 50 mph on NSL single carriageways. Never mind buses/coaches/HGVs/OAPs in Daihatsus/etc., and yes cyclists/scooters/mopeds/milk floats/tractors as well.

But you’re giving examples of the slowest vehicles in existence, to try and justify that a 50+ year old car keeps up with modern traffic, which clearly isn’t the case in general is it?

Be realistic - compare the performance against typical modern traffic, not a list of the slowest vehicles on sale (or the other outliers as you mentioned above!)

I like old cars for what they are, but think there’s possibly some rose tinted specs at play here!

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[ChrisHGTV]

The 0-60/62 figure is a relatively good metric though for comparing performance acceleration wise.

I don’t think you quite got my point - if it takes 19.1 seconds to reach 60mph in the Escort, then that would be at full bore/red lining the engine. If you were driving far more moderately, changing gear at maybe half revs or so, you’d probably be taking 30 seconds or something to reach 60. That’s still going to be quite a long time to reach 40mph.

At a set of lights, as everyone else pulls away normally (again changing up at half revs or whatever), unless it’s being red lined through the gears the Escort would be holding traffic up, and on a daily basis I’d wager normal traffic flow would be impeded with it accelerating far more moderately.

Therefore quite a few people would naturally want to pass. I mean whether or not 0-60mph is typical, you’d certainly be accelerating to 40 or 50 joining larger roads from traffic light junctions etc.

Same as people are keen to get past cyclists, milk floats, tractors in the countryside etc where it’s safe and appropriate - I don’t think it’s all about boy racers.

This is not to say an old Escort can’t be driven on the roads, but to make out the performance is not behind average traffic 50+ years later on is ridiculous, IMHO

I’m not so sure to be honest. Many modern cars are actually surprisingly quite slow (not all obviously). I’ve certainly found this when scrolling through Autotrader as you do. I guess the weight and emissions/efficiency has something to do with it.

 

[Will]

I’m not so sure to be honest. Many modern cars are actually surprisingly quite slow (not all obviously). I’ve certainly found this when scrolling through Autotrader as you do. I guess the weight and emissions/efficiency has something to do with it.

Of course there’s outliers, but most cars aren’t that slow are they?

0-60 in around 10 seconds or less seems to be the norm

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The average modern car may be capable of 0-60 in under 10 secs but it's rare for cars in modern traffic conditions to accelerate that fast. Who uses full bore acceleration in traffic other than boy racers. There are always going to be drivers that want to exceed the speed limit and bully the car in front. They are the source of danger, not the driver of a 70's Escort.

Shush !!

There are AMG owners on here.

We don't want tears before bedtime.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Of course there’s outliers, but most cars aren’t that slow are they?

0-60 in around 10 seconds or less seems to be the norm

Exactly! My little Alfasud was in the 9’s and that was from 1989 with a relatively weedy 118bhp 1712cc.