Avon low profile tyres = pulling with road camber?

[philnewmerc]

So, my W204 pulls left (but not on the flat). It has had 3 four wheel alignments, the last one at a reputable specialist recommended on here - they made next to zero difference. It pulls right on right cambers and left on left cambers, but more so on left cambers (hard to say for sure because right cambers are hard to find). All the usual caster and camber tricks have been done. The garage says it is basically a combination of the w204 being known for this issue, low profile tyres, and my ("poor quality") new Avon tyres.

I am at a crossroads now because as much as I do like the car (nice spec, quick, mpg ok, looks cool, nice and compact) I don't think pulling left is normal. None of my cars have done it unless there was an issue, and to be honest none of them even pulled down the road camber that I noticed. My other car is an old Jap hatchback with rust, a cat D bump, and a million miles on it, and it does not pull left even with a steep road camber.

I just wondered if any W204 owners with sporty low profile tyres have a car that does not pull left?! Just to see if this is a quirk (i.e. serious design flaw imho!) of the car, or if it is something dodgey with mine. I don't really want to buy another 350 quid's worth of tyre on the off chance high quality tyres cure it (I can't imagine they will tbh).

And another question is do E classes (w212) also pull left? Because I'd like to keep to a Merc if i do swap, but Lexus is calling, like one of those mermaids that call mariners to their doom, and I am trying to resist.

I have noticed my previous Mercs also being susceptible to pulling left, but once tyres had been changed or tracking done they always behaved.

Cheers

 

[MSG2004]

Silly question - have you checked the tyre pressures when cold?
Are the tyres new or used and any signs of more wear on one tyre vs the other on the front axel

I has a lot of probles many, many years ago with both of the W203's I got from MB, a 2003 car in 2004 and a 2007 car in 2008 - that 2007 car had low profile - both wnet back to MB several times and it made a difference but I was not 100% happy - drove stright on flat and pulled to left on camber - then new tyres and kwikfit Hunter machine made the car run close to 100% striaght.

I'm sure others here may be able to help you more than I could.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Which Avon tyres are on the car ? My 2006 W203 C55 AMG has had 3 sets of rears and 2 sets of fronts during my ownership ...all Avons.

 

[philnewmerc]

Which Avon tyres are on the car ? My 2006 W203 C55 AMG has had 3 sets of rears and 2 sets of fronts during my ownership ...all Avons.

Avon ZV7, 18 inch wheels, 40 profile fronts

 

[philnewmerc]

Silly question - have you checked the tyre pressures when cold?
Are the tyres new or used and any signs of more wear on one tyre vs the other on the front axel

I has a lot of probles many, many years ago with both of the W203's I got from MB, a 2003 car in 2004 and a 2007 car in 2008 - that 2007 car had low profile - both wnet back to MB several times and it made a difference but I was not 100% happy - drove stright on flat and pulled to left on camber - then new tyres and kwikfit Hunter machine made the car run close to 100% striaght.

I'm sure others here may be able to help you more than I could.

New tyres. Pressures fine.
The set that came off were worn oddly on the front left. I assumed it was tracking out (and it was) but now it is all spot on it still pulls left.

 

[MSG2004]

Worth looking for if not already investigated

Look at dmapers, suspension parts to see if both sides look as though they were replaced at the same time, and or parts/suspension is the same brand/etc on both sides

The specialist you used did they have a Hunter machine as these are pretty good in almost anyone's hands.

 

[Petrol Pete]

All of mine have been ZZ5's (not sure they still make them) The only time I had an 'issue' was when I rebuilt the steering rack/track rod ends/ new front struts, when I took it for a 4 wheel (Hunter) alignment afterwards it went on two different machines until it was 100% .

Getting it 100% meant adjusting the alignment on the REAR wheels as well as the front.

 

[philnewmerc]

Yeah its had camber and caster eccentric bolts fitted and rear and front checked.
Not sure if notable but the rear was out and was adjusted. I could have sworn that made it worse! (This is a slightly subjective area)
The garage was a well-known specialist recommended here, not a quick fit type
I'll look for the sheet and upload soon. Maybe someone can spot anything odd

 

[SpikyMikey]

I just wondered if any W204 owners with sporty low profile tyres have a car that does not pull left?!

As mentioned previously, mine never showed this trait in the 5 years I had it; S204 wagon, staggered 18's with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric (can't remember if they were Asy 3 or 4)

 

[philnewmerc]

data attached

 

[philnewmerc]

As mentioned previously, mine never showed this trait in the 5 years I had it; S204 wagon, staggered 18's with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric (can't remember if they were Asy 3 or 4)

I'd like to believe that fitting different tyres would cure it, but so many owners complain of the same thing I wonder if it is just standard and your car was unusual !

Were they 18 inch wheels?

 

[SpikyMikey]

I'd like to believe that fitting different tyres would cure it, but so many owners complain of the same thing I wonder if it is just standard and your car was unusual !

Could well have been the case; which would have been uncharacteristically-good fortune on my part!
Going on previous form, if a million MB's tracked perfectly, I'd buy the one that constantly wanted to drive itself into a ditch.

 

[philnewmerc]

Well, I took a couple of hours off and found lots of quiet cambered roads to drive on. It's hard to be scientific but I think it does pull evenly left or right, but it is very very camber sensitive: the more camber the stronger the pull.

So this tends to suggest A) design flaw for this car B) The Avon tyres have some weird behaviour (bearing in mind it did this on the previous set too I'm not convinced) and C) My car is an outlier with an odd issue no one can solve D) low profile tyres on w204s pull with the road camber

As I like pretty much everything about the car (apart from the rattles, that are mainly solved) I've decided its B and am going to enjoy the car until the tyres are half worn and then try expensive ones!

Thanks for all the comments

 

[philnewmerc]

Could well have been the case; which would have been uncharacteristically-good fortune on my part!
Going on previous form, if a million MB's tracked perfectly, I'd buy the one that constantly wanted to drive itself into a ditch.

Were they low profile tyres or normal ones?
Cheers!

 

[SpikyMikey]

I'd like to believe that fitting different tyres would cure it, but so many owners complain of the same thing I wonder if it is just standard and your car was unusual !

Were they 18 inch wheels?

Sorry, just seen this; yes 18s

Were they low profile tyres or normal ones?
Cheers!

225/40/18 on the front and 255/35/18 on the rear.

 

[philnewmerc]

Sorry, just seen this; yes 18s
View attachment 173250

225/40/18 on the front and 255/35/18 on the rear.

Thanks.

Well this is a mystery. Two identical cars with identical wheels and tyres. Yours had zero pulls and mine pulls like mad on the road camber. Mine has a v6 diesel though, so maybe the weight makes the tyres behave differently perhaps?? Could be tyres, but the previous tyres were no different so I am reluctant to chuck another 300 quid away in the hope the tyres are at fault. Or, my car has an issue that is not picked up in the alignment data.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Thanks.

Well this is a mystery. Two identical cars with identical wheels and tyres. Yours had zero pulls and mine pulls like mad on the road camber. Mine has a v6 diesel though, so maybe the weight makes the tyres behave differently perhaps?? Could be tyres, but the previous tyres were no different so I am reluctant to chuck another 300 quid away in the hope the tyres are at fault. Or, my car has an issue that is not picked up in the alignment data.

I doubt it's tyre related.
When I bought mine it had well worn but legal Continentals on the front and brand new Chinese ditchfinders on the rear and still drove straight. Have the wheels themselves been checked for trueness ? ( although buckled rims normally cause shimmies or vibrations )

 

[philnewmerc]

I doubt it's tyre related.
When I bought mine it had well worn but legal Continentals on the front and brand new Chinese ditchfinders on the rear and still drove straight. Have the wheels themselves been checked for trueness ? ( although buckled rims normally cause shimmies or vibrations )

I suppose one other possibility is my definition of pulling: its not really noticeable while holding the wheel as the actual force on the wheel is very small. But if i let go of the wheel on a cambered road the car *immediately* starts to go left.


This definitely not the case on yours?


So i have to be careful when i swap hands, and obviously can't let go of the wheel momentarily to do something.

 

[TrueSpirit]

How long have you had the car ?

If not long, maybe it's had damage following an accident and the repair job is a bit out of alignment. Are your tyre treads completely evenly worn on each chassis and tyre pressures too?
I've had 2x w212 and neither pulled. Let go of the steering wheel and it straightens. My current 213 because it's all wheel drive has the propensity for the steering wheel to follow the road undulations and with force, so the w212 steering is far better in my experience

 

[ALFAitalia]

My 212 will run off the camber either way (staggered fit 18inch AMG wheels and lower, stiffer springs as its a Sport)....I try not to drive on the right too much....its usually a short lived and expensive thing to do in this country!......as has EVERY car I've ever had except my SLK R170....you cant beat physics and gravity!......but we are talking a tiny amount.....Id never notice it with my hands on the wheel.....and I try not to drive no handed very often.....accept when eating a Bag Mac, putting my tie on or texting of course. If you think about it, for a car to drive in a straight line whilst on any sort of camber it would actually have to pulling slightly uphill (to the right) to avoid gravity pulling it to the left....something that would feel bad on a flat road and probably cause increased tyre wear.
I think the reason the SLK didn't is because it didn't have rack and pinion steering and after my wife complained about the vague steering this did an alignment and tightened the steering box a little. If anything it was a bit too tight but the car went where you pointed it and went dead straight no matter what the camber. Personally I never liked the R170 steering....lacking any real feel....but my wife does not drive like me and never noticed...so that's fine.
Just my 2 pence worth.