Sp!ke
Administrator
But earlier you said
So you accidentally ride in such a way as to prevent the free flow of traffic or would you say it is a deliberate act?
Perhaps its all that spandex that gets your mind in a caffufle.
Last edited:
But earlier you said
So you accidentally ride in such a way as to prevent the free flow of traffic or would you say it is a deliberate act?
Perhaps its all that spandex that gets your mind in a caffufle.
ROBB
Active Member
As it was your context - i am sad that you forget so soon 
....
A deliberate act of obstruction (evidently depending on your perspective) is one thing - which i do not condone, nor ever have.
Defensive positioning which leaves only the correct overtaking method seems to me to be a completely different thing altogether
(apart from the obvious problems of trying to obstruct a car whilst on a bike - which seems to me to be a bastion of lunacy)
To be honest - i fail to see how any cyclist can prevent the free flow of traffic (certainly less so than an old lady in a micra) & on specific road types overtaking is restricted anyway.
If it is my deliberate presence on a road that irritates you: oops (bad luck)
If it is my deliberate consideration for my safety that in any way impedes your progress by even a single second: ooops (bad luck)
After all - i am important enough that people will wait for me - i dont need to be in such a rush all the time
rob
....A deliberate act of obstruction (evidently depending on your perspective) is one thing - which i do not condone, nor ever have.
Defensive positioning which leaves only the correct overtaking method seems to me to be a completely different thing altogether
(apart from the obvious problems of trying to obstruct a car whilst on a bike - which seems to me to be a bastion of lunacy)To be honest - i fail to see how any cyclist can prevent the free flow of traffic (certainly less so than an old lady in a micra) & on specific road types overtaking is restricted anyway.
If it is my deliberate presence on a road that irritates you: oops (bad luck)
If it is my deliberate consideration for my safety that in any way impedes your progress by even a single second: ooops (bad luck)
After all - i am important enough that people will wait for me - i dont need to be in such a rush all the time
rob
Sp!ke
Administrator
Unfortunately Robb you are mistaken thinking you are taking a defensive stance.
What you are doing (I can assure you) is putting yourself in a more vulnerable position allowing little or no buffer room. You're therefore far more likely have a passing mirror whack you on the backside (or worse).
I guess it saves on birch twigs.
What you are doing (I can assure you) is putting yourself in a more vulnerable position allowing little or no buffer room. You're therefore far more likely have a passing mirror whack you on the backside (or worse).
I guess it saves on birch twigs.
OP
OP
Spinal
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2004
- Messages
- 4,806
- Location
- between Uxbridge and the Alps
- Car
- x254, G350, Duster, S320, Mach1, 900ss and a few more
robert.saunders
MB Enthusiast
Thanks... tractors have it for me, but only when they're in my way Seriously, should be banned from roads during peak hours
Seriously, should be banned from roads during peak hours
ROBB
Active Member
What it comes down to ultimately is this: If i allow you to squeeze past me (keeping tight to the kerb and risking more due to drains/kerbs/pedestrians etc) - then you will.
If i take that option away and leave the correct overtaking options open to you [is there room / can i get past safely]: we will both be safer (though mainly me - dents/scratches aside).
Am i to assume from this that i am right ??
rob
Sp!ke
Administrator
Your logic is completely flawed.
If you stick reasonably close to the kerb, vehicles can pass without squeezing by. If you ride a third of the way into the lane, passing vehicles will not always have the luxury of being able to give you any breathing space.
You are also antagonising them so that even if they could give you a wide berth, they're now much less likely to.
I'm not going to sway you am I? Shame really as it might one day save you from significant injury.
If you stick reasonably close to the kerb, vehicles can pass without squeezing by. If you ride a third of the way into the lane, passing vehicles will not always have the luxury of being able to give you any breathing space.
You are also antagonising them so that even if they could give you a wide berth, they're now much less likely to.
I'm not going to sway you am I? Shame really as it might one day save you from significant injury.
Carrotchomper
MB Enthusiast
I don't know about this debate. I generally ride at a reasonable distance from the kerb, missing the drains. This morning 2 cars in a row passed me ridiculously close. It does concern me somewhat that it's only the matter of about a foot's distance before their wing mirror catches my handlebars and I am seriously injured 
However, riding further out I felt far more vulnerable and I'm not convinced that other vehicles were any more considerate...
Having said that, I was very close to decking someone this evening who took umbrage to me stopping within the queue of traffic at red lights [Rather than scooting up the inside or running the light, both of which would have been very dangerous due to the layout of the junction] and practically parked his bumper on my rear tyre. He got a withering look instead
However, riding further out I felt far more vulnerable and I'm not convinced that other vehicles were any more considerate...
Having said that, I was very close to decking someone this evening who took umbrage to me stopping within the queue of traffic at red lights [Rather than scooting up the inside or running the light, both of which would have been very dangerous due to the layout of the junction] and practically parked his bumper on my rear tyre. He got a withering look instead
Dave Lewis
Active Member
The thing that amazes me most regarding bikes and cars in my city is how a lot of car drivers deal with overtaking bicycles on narrow roads with approaching traffic. It seems to me that there are 3 options for car drivers: 1. Slow down and wait until the oncoming car has passed. 2. Run the cyclist over. 3. Pass the cyclist, forcing the oncoming car to brake heavily and swerve out of the way. According to my observations, option 3 is the most widely used, sometimes option 2 
eek: ), but very rarely option 1.
eek: ), but very rarely option 1.
Sp!ke
Administrator
The thing that amazes me most regarding bikes and cars in my city is how a lot of car drivers deal with overtaking bicycles on narrow roads with approaching traffic. It seems to me that there are 3 options for car drivers: 1. Slow down and wait until the oncoming car has passed. 2. Run the cyclist over. 3. Pass the cyclist, forcing the oncoming car to brake heavily and swerve out of the way. According to my observations, option 3 is the most widely used, sometimes option 2
All
OP
OP
Spinal
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2004
- Messages
- 4,806
- Location
- between Uxbridge and the Alps
- Car
- x254, G350, Duster, S320, Mach1, 900ss and a few more
The thing that amazes me most regarding bikes and cars in my city is how a lot of car drivers deal with overtaking bicycles on narrow roads with approaching traffic. It seems to me that there are 3 options for car drivers: 1. Slow down and wait until the oncoming car has passed. 2. Run the cyclist over. 3. Pass the cyclist, forcing the oncoming car to brake heavily and swerve out of the way. According to my observations, option 3 is the most widely used, sometimes option 2
Option 4: Attempt to squeeze by, thus forcing the cyclist to swear at you and ride closer to the curb...
It's safer there... when I squeeze by the cyclist will be left with more space; if he's in the middle of the road most car drivers will still attempt an overtake.
Dave Lewis
Active Member
I'm talking about crowded city streets where there are cars parked on either side of the road, and barely enough room for two cars to pass each other. What I'm saying is that rather than add a couple of seconds to a journey by hanging back and being patient, a lot of drivers will risk a collision. Which seems pretty dumb to me. I come across this every day.
Dave Lewis
Active Member
That would be great, if there actually were cycle paths.
ROBB
Active Member
not enough to guarantee clearance for all - i seem to remember when learning to drive being instructed to keep an open car doors width away from parked cars: JUST IN CASE
AND SO WILL HAVE TO WAIT FOR AN APPROPRIATE OVERTAKING OPPURTUNITY (AS PER ANOTHER VEHICLE)
WHICH IS THE ATTITUDE THAT INJURES/KILLS PEOPLE
Sp!ke
Administrator
Listen, the fact is, round here there is a constant stream of oncoming traffic with little or no opportunity to cross to the other side of the road to overtake.
So if you deliberately choose to ride a bicycle one third into the lane it leaves the driver two options.
The first is to continue down the road behind you at 10mph for as long as it takes, along with all the other drivers forming the giant queue behind and the second option is to squeeze past.
Most people have deadlines and simply cannot afford to get held up for ten minutes everytime they come across a bicycle. (I probably pass ten every day on my commute) So surprise surprise, they brush past.
The causal effect of your so called 'defensive cycling' is putting yourself in more danger and I honestly think you need to rethink your strategy.
So if you deliberately choose to ride a bicycle one third into the lane it leaves the driver two options.
The first is to continue down the road behind you at 10mph for as long as it takes, along with all the other drivers forming the giant queue behind and the second option is to squeeze past.
Most people have deadlines and simply cannot afford to get held up for ten minutes everytime they come across a bicycle. (I probably pass ten every day on my commute) So surprise surprise, they brush past.
The causal effect of your so called 'defensive cycling' is putting yourself in more danger and I honestly think you need to rethink your strategy.
Hi Robb
I use all forms of transport (inc cars and a bike) and I agree with you on your comments. If I see a bike passing an obstacle I slow down, let them pass and then accelerate. Can't see the problem there.
PS the nutters that freak me out in London are the bus drivers - they are complete psychos whether driving aggressively at bikes, cars or pedestrians. I had a double decker bearing down on me on Kensignton High street when I was pushing my newborn acorss the road for one of the first times. I was so incensed I forced him to stop the bus in the middle of the road and asked him why the h**l he was trying to mow down a 3 week old baby. He was very embarassed. (not as embarssed as my wife though.....)
st4
Banned
Bicycles aren't getting a good press here.
I would have no issue with them, if they made use of the cycle lanes, which the tax payer has gone to significant expense in providing, rather than cycling on the road. We might have well as widened the road. The second irksome thing is the red light running. Its red for a reason, safety, and as they have the least protection of all it seems daft really.
I would have no issue with them, if they made use of the cycle lanes, which the tax payer has gone to significant expense in providing, rather than cycling on the road. We might have well as widened the road. The second irksome thing is the red light running. Its red for a reason, safety, and as they have the least protection of all it seems daft really.
Corrado
Active Member
A bit of perspective please! Forget cyclists, it's trucks that are the most frequent pain, esp. on dual carriageways. The 0.0025mph leapfrog overtaking they perform is abuse of the road - and I'll get specific and cite the A34 climb from Winchester to Newbury. When they half-overtake, and after five minutes, drop back from lack of steam - well - that takes the biscuit
.
They are meant to be professional drivers.
Rant over .
.They are meant to be professional drivers.
Rant over
.
b1n0de
Member
I appreciate this comment very much
ss201
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2009
- Messages
- 1,091
- Location
- Near Lancaster UK
- Car
- 190E 2.6 Sportline, W203 320 CDi SE Estate
I'm astonished by some of the comments. I walk, cycle, use public transport and drive cars. Why it's not possible for people to just co-exist is beyond me. I was in Italy a couple of years ago (ironically as a spectator on several stages of the Mille Miglia). In their ancient cities with incredibly narrow streets, pedestrians and cyclists co-existed very naturally with motorists and motorcyclists. Why on earth we can't do that here is beyond me. A bit of patience and consideration for others is all that's required. Live and let live, surely....
