Buying guide W123 (saloon vs coupe)

[DiksmuideSteve]

Dear All,

After a few months, really excited to have a meeting with the owner of this 230ce. Nice colour combo: graphite grey with biege leather. Someone will give me the MB code for the paint no doubt!

So then, one owner from new (1976). Garaged. 165k km.

Previous owned a 230e back in the 90's, so aware of what to look at, but with the coupe, is there anything specific to look out for.?

One excited bunny!


Cheers

 

[grober]

RUST---- action, stability and sealing of the frameless glass windows ---- RUST------ that single timing chain on the M102 engine---- RUST---- sunroof drains -I see it has one-- RUST --- state of the 14 " ??? tyres [ how old are they- check the date ----anything over 5 years old should be changed] ---- did I mention RUST ?

 

[MangoMan]

What Grober has said.

And if it passes all those you will be hard-pressed to find a better Mercedes! Personally I would be more concerned buying a Mercedes 20 years younger!!!

w123, it's when they were built to last the "Ages"...

Here's my much later year w123/200 Manual. In fact one of the last - a 1985. (The wife gracing the bonnet & my BMW 2000 "New Class" in the background).

Good luck!

NB. I do believe the 200 of '76 would have the m115 Engine. The m102 was fitted to post-'79 models.

 

[grober]

You are correct Bill the buyer may be buying one of very first 1976 coupes. I had registered 76 as "86 " in my mind. As such it may have the M115 engine?? Not sure whether it would have jetronic D or jetronic K injection at that age either.

 

[MangoMan]

You are correct Bill the buyer may be buying one of very first 1976 coupes. I had registered 76 as "86 " in my mind. As such it may have the M115 engine?? Not sure whether it would have jetronic D or jetronic K injection at that age either.

As stated mine was an '85 model and it was just a "200" (no 'E') - It was Carb, not Fuel Injected. In fact a friend had a w124/200 that had a Carb!

 

[alabbasi]

Make sure any of the coupe specific trim is in good shape because it may be unavailable. This includes rubber bits. Else treat as any other w123 for mechanical and chassis inspection.

 

[DiksmuideSteve]

You are correct Bill the buyer may be buying one of very first 1976 coupes. I had registered 76 as "86 " in my mind. As such it may have the M115 engine?? Not sure whether it would have jetronic D or jetronic K injection at that age either.

here's a photo from the ad. not the best shot, but I'm sure you can recognise it.

 

[alabbasi]

Looks like an earlier motor as it's not an m102. If a 230c it would not be d or k jetronic. It would have a carburator.

 

[DiksmuideSteve]

81kW m115 ('76-).?
just checked the ad. it's a 'c' and not a 'ce'

anyone know where the carb is on this engine..?

 

[alabbasi]

On the other side of that picture

 

[DiksmuideSteve]

......and whilst we're at it, anyone know if Haynes published a workshop manual for the 230.? I can versions for the diesel, and 250/280, but absolutely nothing for the 2,3 petrol..?

thanks again

 

[grober]

That's definitely a M115 engine -- the main thing is that its not a cross flow head meaning the inlet [carb or injection] and exhaust manifolds are on the same side of the engine.
here's the later m102 engine with KE injection

and a M102 with a carb ---in both images the large air cleaner is removed

 

[grober]

And here's a nice example with the M115.954 ENGINE appears to have an automatic choke Stromberg carb power 109 hp (81 kW). -very similar to the power output of the later carburettor M102 2 LITRE engine

Euro 1977 Mercedes-Benz 230C

 

[DiksmuideSteve]

And here's a nice example with the M115.954 ENGINE appears to have an automatic choke Stromberg carb power 109 hp (81 kW). -very similar to the power output of the later carburettor M102 2 LITRE engine

Euro 1977 Mercedes-Benz 230C

Cheers for the picys. The internet does indeed, have its' advantages but on the flip side, can get you stressed pretty quickly: The m115 for example. I had a 230e '86, and it was sublime. Had it for three years until job move forced sale. Anyway, looking for my second w123, and as luck would have it, stumbled upon an early 230c with a m115 unit, as apposed to the m102. Now reading about this, you'd never want to go near that engine; the carb being the engines Achilles heel. Should I be worried that it's a carb unit, and not the legendary injection unit that followed it.? The car is in pristine condition. I've just had a mini cooper 1978 for the last 5 years, and adjusting the carb was an annual event - so playing with the engine doesn't worry me. What does, is spending more time under the bonnet, rather than behind the wheel. My 230e drove faultlessly for the time I had it. Surely no RUST must be my biggest concern, and not the difficult-to-tune carb.? Cheers again, for your input.

 

[alabbasi]

Go see it. Drive and and see if you can live with it. Carbs like fuel injection are fine when they run fine and a pain if they don't. You won't know unless you see the car.

 

[grober]

Iirc the carburettor problems refer to the multiple choke solex or twin zenith carbs. This car would have the stromberg carburettor with either a manual or automatic choke--- being a relatively simple carb- piston and tapered needle jet like the SU its easier to work on . and the same/similar carb on the M102 doesn't get the same bad rep. The automatic choke version might be tricky??
Here's a pictorial strip down.
https://community.mercedes.me/en/forum/topic/11757-diy-stromberg-175-cdt-w-manual-choke

 

[grober]

this is rather good summary
Mercedes-Benz W123 series

 

[DiksmuideSteve]

Iirc the carburettor problems refer to the multiple choke solex or twin zenith carbs. This car would have the stromberg carburettor with either a manual or automatic choke--- being a relatively simple carb- piston and tapered needle jet like the SU its easier to work on . and the same/similar carb on the M102 doesn't get the same bad rep. The automatic choke version might be tricky??
Here's a pictorial strip down.
https://community.mercedes.me/en/forum/topic/11757-diy-stromberg-175-cdt-w-manual-choke

Looks straightforward. As I said previously, my '78 mini cooper has taught me about basic carb set-up, so worst-case scenario will see me stripping it down one weekend. It's only a plaything for the spring/summer/autumn months & weekends and not my daily. Being always garaged, DIY repairs are welcome, except for 'engine-out' stuff!! . Will go see it next friday and hopefully, she'll be mine.?

cheers

 

[MangoMan]

All I can say is I had the w123/220 Carb version on the m102 and I never touched the Carb once. Gave faultless thousands of miles while I had it, including many trips from Harare to Johannesburg, (where breaking down is not an option!) a couple of times with a pretty big trailer!
On your prospective buy having the lovely "Mexican Hats" (Alloys) is a major bonus!

 

[vijilants]

As Grober states, speaking from my personal experience, the 230C stromberg carb is fairly straighforward and very easy to strip and work on. The main thing that goes on it is the internal rubber diaphram and it is dead easy to replace. The auto choke also can be a bit temperamental but if set up properly works OK. You also need to check for air leaks on the hard rubber gasket between the carb and the manifold. Easy to do, just rock the carb back and forth and you will see if it is damaged. Mixture is regulated by turning the jet which sits under the carb and the carb need regular tuning to keep it in optimum shape. Not difficult to do with a CO meter.

More often that not, a complete stripdown of the carb, a thorough clean and replacement of all service parts within the carb restores the unit like new.

Note that ther 115 engine is bulletproof and when mantained properly but it is underpowered for the W123 coupe. It is dead simple to work on. Nothing complicated.

You would also benefit from fitting electronic ignition and some sort of an inline fuel filter as this model was lacking a fuel filter and often the carb gets clogged up as a result.

There is no haynes manual for the 230C in particular. However everything else on the car is very basic and a standard w123 manual will cover anything else.

You can get an official engine manual if you hunt around.