C63 Review

[mb240]

Another C63 news item, but this car is really making headlines (in the car world) vs. the M3 and RS4.
http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=47&i=17372
"It was the moment when the rear-end of the car jacked out to an ego-preening angle and the tyres continued to smoke round the hairpin at Paul Ricard that it became clear the C63 AMG is no ordinary Mercedes. In fact it marks a total shift in the company philosophy that should have real drivers heading to Mercedes showrooms in droves."

 

[stats007]

It still needs a manual gearbox .

 

[Mudster]

Waddya mean it needs a manual gearbox?

I've only ordered one of these cause I can get an Auto Estate with a stupidly large engine

Went to the dealer today and gave him my cheque to book the production slot, I'm unlikely to see an Estate before Septemberish....

The more of these reviews I read the more I want this car, although I'll not be putting the drivers pack on, it's quick enough as it is and this will be my daily driver. The extra handling and speed just isn't worth the compromise in ride quality and lets be honest, it's a bit silly putting a handling pack on an estate isn't it.

Can't wait to get one

 

[stats007]

I was referring to this:

In fact it marks a total shift in the company philosophy that should have real drivers heading to Mercedes showrooms in droves

 

[Mudster]

I think the new generation of semi auto's are starting to make true manuals redundant.
It's unlikely a professional racing driver would make a manual car navigate a track any quicker in the same car as a manual.

 

[stats007]

Maybe not but they're more involving to drive. Autos are also heavier and have increased drivetrain losses.

 

[mb240]

Maybe not but they're more involving to drive. Autos are also heavier and have increased drivetrain losses.

Well involving is one thing but it involving is entirely subjective, and at the other driving extreme of F1 or DTM drivers they don't use traditional manuals - it's paddle shifting because the auto boxes now change gears far faster than a human could without dumping the clutch.

I think it's less about the experience of the drive and more of the actual drive - is it actually faster and do you actually have more control or does it feel faster and does it feel like you have more control?

I'd have one if I had the €100k to spare!

 

[Mudster]

Maybe not but they're more involving to drive. Autos are also heavier and have increased drivetrain losses.

I would have agreed with you until the last year or so, these gearboxes have improved in leaps and bounds and whereas it used to be akin to a slushmatic or a pre selector almost, the changes in these boxes are instant.

However, this is purely personal. This will be my everyday transport, 95% of the time it will be put in "D" and left to it's own devices, the other 5% will be run at places like Bruntingthorpe for a bit of fun.

For the comfort of 95% of the time I'm not prepared to put up with the discomfort of what would likely be a very heavy, almost racing clutch, for the 5% of time I want to have fun.

If I were buying a track day car I'd be buying the M3 not the C63, it's clearly faster and much more a drivers car. You don't put a 6.2 litre V8 in the front of a track car.

I think Mercedes have absolutely hit the nail on the head with this car with what their customers want, it has huge power and everyday driveability, will roll up a motorway and potter around central London (annoying Ken obviously). It is the perfect compromise if such a thing exists.

The M3 excels on the track, the RS4 is also very capable in certain respects, the C63 is just good at everything, but falls slightly short of excelling in any one respect.

If they were athletes, the M3 is finely tuned sprinter, The RS4 is the 200/400 specialist....the C63 is a Decathlete...

 

[marcos]

Actually I drove my wifes manual A180 CDI Avantgarde with sports pack yesterday and I felt like an 18yr old again, all that crazy gear changing coming up to roundabouts and hoofing it off again, bought back my youth, shame it's not very quick

 

[stats007]

The M3 excels on the track, the RS4 is also very capable in certain respects, the C63 is just good at everything, but falls slightly short of excelling in any one respect.

That has nothing to do with the gearboxes though - all down to the chassis and engine.

Autos have their uses but I drive for pleasure and not necessity - so until MB make a decent manual gearbox I won't consider them a competitor for serious rivals like BMW and Porsche.

 

[mb240]

That has nothing to do with the gearboxes though - all down to the chassis and engine.

Autos have their uses but I drive for pleasure and not necessity - so until MB make a decent manual gearbox I won't consider them a competitor for serious rivals like BMW and Porsche.

That's a strange comment. The 7-speed Speedshift in the C63 has a fully manual mode as well as fully automatic (and a third mode). The only difference between it's manual and a traditional manual is that you don't clutch and move a lever because it would way slower than using a paddle shift.

Surely the ultimate transmission is the gear being selected by the driver but the actual change being as fast as possible - i.e., not happening with traditional manual clutch/gear lever transmissions.

Maybe it's a playstation generation thing lol!

 

[Mudster]

That's a strange comment. The 7-speed Speedshift in the C63 has a fully manual mode as well as fully automatic (and a third mode). The only difference between it's manual and a traditional manual is that you don't clutch and move a lever because it would way slower than using a paddle shift.

Surely the ultimate transmission is the gear being selected by the driver but the actual change being as fast as possible - i.e., not happening with traditional manual clutch/gear lever transmissions.

Maybe it's a playstation generation thing lol!

It's an unwillingness to accept that technology has reached or now surpassed manual transmissions.

Race cars are an indication of what is quicker or better, and without exception (i.e. where it isn't banned for cost reasons) every race car has semi automatic gearboxes.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think you're right mb240 - the very best performance will come from a transmission without a clutch - but being a few tenths quicker doesn't always make it more fun, engaging, inovolving*

* delete as applicable.

I borrowed a Ka a few weeks ago, and even though it was slower than my car, and my manual gear changes were slower than the auto changes in my car, I still had great fun.

I much prefer automatics (providing that it's well-suited to the engine) but I can't deny the manual gearbox certainly made the drive more engaging - probably because I had more to do and think about.

 

[stats007]

It's an unwillingness to accept that technology has reached or now surpassed manual transmissions.

Of course it isn't. It's personal preference.

 

[glojo]

I agree it is personal preference and that does not make it right. Some folks like cod liver oil and pretend it is good for you. On a public highway the modern automatic is more officiant, more relaxing, more reliable and cheaper to maintain, but yes it is all about personal preference. Years ago synchromesh was only fitted on the more expensive cars and this modern technology was deemed fit for 'girls'. Now we hear about 'girlie' cars, and we poo hoo diesels, or estate cars. Changing gear manually passes the time of day and if it makes folks happy, then so be it.

If I were being honest, I would confess to enjoy having a spirited drive in a manual car without using the clutch, especially under pressure! To do that smoothly and consistently takes a degree of practise\skill and you can then say you are at one with your pride and joy. Letting the sychromesh do the work is perhaps using technology, and is not pure driving skill and why not go whole hog and go with 21st century technology?


John

 

[MBManInKen]

Autos have their uses but I drive for pleasure and not necessity - so until MB make a decent manual gearbox I won't consider them a competitor for serious rivals like BMW and Porsche.

Fair enough, but I put the "I" in bold as this is clearly an issue of personal preference. 95% of my driving is for my pleasure (living in Central London, my necessary trips involve the tube only) and the auto box is, to me, an essential part of that pleasure.

So, each to their own .

EDIT: I should learn to read the whole thread before replying, Stats and Glojo already made the point...

 

[kjay]

I'd previously never have considered an auto - same as stats. But, having owned one now, I doubt I'd go back to a clutch type manual. I don't find it any less 'involving' to drive at all.
I would like paddle shift but only if it was the 'proper' sort (as C63) that wont change on its own - even if you hit the limiter.
C63 seems an awsome car. I'm still not sure about the 'new look' fronts of MB's but perhaps that will change.
I'm just glad to see Mercedes getting good press.

 

[mb240]

I would like paddle shift but only if it was the 'proper' sort (as C63) that wont change on its own - even if you hit the limiter.

I noticed recently when driving my much much (much!) older AMG that it will stick on the limit at 6000rpm if you put it in 2nd, but won't change to third unless you tip it up. It's the only way to get it to hold a gear.

These new gearboxes in the current and future AMG's apparently will do gears properly, it seems to be what they used to use in the DTM versions (W209 era DTM).

C63 = most desirable car in a very long time.