Confused...

[IanA2]

Currently I have 2Mb ADSL with AOL. I would like to upgrade to 8Mb. ADSLguide.org.uk says my exchange has ADSL Max status. Accordingly I approached AOL, however they said that although my exchange has been upgraded, my telephone line has not. I've never heard of this, is it true, does anyone know? And if it is true, are BT obliged to action my request?

 

[w124coupe]

Go to BT.com and use the broadband line checker - that will tell you what service can be provided using BT's kit and give an estimate of what Max can offer you.

The 8Mb is a theoretical maximum and even ideal conditions will give 7Mb. Most people get 4-5Mb out of Max, with less during the evenings and weekends when contention is highest.

Assuming AOL use BT's kit they should be able to offer the same.

Its possible your exchange may be "unbundled" which means that the ISP takes control of your line. If you still pay BT for your phone then its not unbundled.


We are on BT's Total Broadband and get 5Mb throughput most of the time.

 

[glojo]

BT.com is a very inaccurate site and will only give an approximate calculation. This has been discussed before and I'm sure a search will produce the link for a better site. If not I will ask my son when he gets home.

The BT Broadband site stated we could only receive 1mb maximum, but that was quite simply WRONG and we are now on the newer ADSL service and get 3mb as stated on this thread.


Good luck,
John

 

[masqueraid]

At the risk of confusing you further have a look here:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsl.htm
MaxDSL lines need to be enabled and tested individually to get best performance but you can get a predictive level of bandwidth by using a SNR diagnostics package on your modem/router using your existing line.

The kitz site has software you can download for this for most of the popular devices (& there are links to more at Bulldog). If you run the diagnostics there is also a predictive tool on the site that you can feed the diagnostics data into to get a 'best guess' at your MaxDSL rate but it is just that, a guess. Currently my understanding of BT Wholesale's approach is you're buying a pig in a poke, you pay for MaxDSL without knowing what you'll actually end up with as a speed, it'll be better than 2MB but depending on your line quality and distance from the exchange you won't know for sure until they've run it out to you and fine tuned it over a couple of weeks.

 

[reflexboy]

Working for BT myself as an engineer 'on the front line' I can safely say what the guys above have said is correct. The main factor as to the max speed you can expect from ADSL Max is simply down to the line quality and the line length from the supplying telephone exchange. This is generally measured in db loss. A collegue, also an engineer, was advised that he could expect to get up to 6-6.5 Meg. Really he said, let's see. Considering he lives 150-200 meters (cable length) from his local exchange, we found this hard to believe. So does anyone actually get 8 Meg??? As it turns out, he consistantly gets 8-8.5 Meg. My line tests 2.79 Km from the exchange and I get anywhere between 3 and 6 Meg, but on average it will settle about 4.5-5 Meg. What AOL have told you maybe correct, only down to the fact that you maybe too far from the exchange to support ADSL Max, and/or the db loss, or insertion loss test (similar things) is just out of the parameter limits.

 

[w124coupe]

The suggestion re the BT checker was to establish if the guy is or isn't on a Max-enabled exchange. Re AOL, they may well not have links into BT to allow them to hand off more than 2Mb from that area - that's a separate issue.

Regarding Max speeds attained, there is much more variability caused by extension wiring and filters etc (i.e. the users responsibility) than there was with "old" 2Mb DSL. Max uses frequencies on the line not used by standard ADSL and so is more affected by interference and noise - hard to "predict" without turning it on.

In particular, if extensions have been wired with el cheapo, non-twisted pair wire then disconnections and a poor eventual rate will often result as the extension wire picks up interference from gadgets in the house and the BT network lowers the rate to try to stabilise the line.

Same with £1.99 off the car boot sale filters which will often affect Max when a phone is picked up, for instance.

Can't see how anyone can get 8.5Mb from Max when the top sync speed is below that at 8128Kbps giving 7.15Mbps throughput .

Here's how the sync speed acieved on the line relates back to the max IP throughput data rate profile set in the network (which will often be lowered further because of errors and disconnections and contention with other users):

ATM Line sync speed
IP Data Rate
from 288Kbps 0.25Mbps from 576Kbps 0.5Mbps from 1152Kbps 1Mbps from 1728Kbps 1.5Mbps from 2272Kbps 2Mbps from 2848Kbps 2.5Mbps from 3424Kbps 3Mbps from 4000Kbps 3.5Mbps from 4544Kbps 4Mbps from 5120Kbps 4.5Mbps from 5696Kbps 5Mbps from 6240Kbps 5.5Mbps from 6816Kbps 6Mbps 7392Kbps 6.5Mbps 7968Kbps 7Mbps 8128Kbps 7.15Mbps

We have had a lot of trouble locally with speeds dropping off at dusk - resolved by BT in the end as wires affected by the old streetlamps switching on in the village emitting a "thump" from the starting mechanisms.

Moving to Max does not guarantee more throughput than a good 2Mb service was achieving before but often does eventually achieve more.

The biggest boost we have seen is in the upload rate (roughly doubled) which helps when sending e-mail attachments to the office!

 

[guydewdney]

with all the Db losses involved in a line - if one is mates with a BT engineer, could one get a faster connection?

ie if tyhe lines were cleaned / made better (eg soldered not IDC) would it be 'better' ?

Just a random question...

 

[IanA2]

Thanks for all the replies folks. Having read them and the provided links I think I am a little less confused. As I understand it, it takes 10 days to set the speed. The BT test comfirms Max status and says 3Mb available and maybe more, which suggests it might be possible to get a much better speed.

I did have a look at the SNR downloads but don't have/know where to get the figures.

All that said, the bit that confuses me is AOL insistance that my line needs upgrading. I'll speak to BT and let you know !!

 

[IanA2]

Update

Established from BT: Distance OK, Exchange OK, Line X
Advised to ask AOL to call BT wholesale re schedule/possibility of line upgrade as they are not customer facing.

Established from AOL: They couldn't organise a lemonade party in a Methodist Chapel. Had about seven different exasperating calls, at my expense, each one involving several different idiots all passing the buck, but essentially saying that I need to speak to BT!!!!!.....aargh!!!!!

Esta

 

[IanA2]

Update

Established from BT: Distance OK, Exchange OK, Line X
Advised to ask AOL to call BT wholesale re schedule/possibility of line upgrade as they are not customer facing.

Established from AOL: They couldn't organise a lemonade party in a Methodist Chapel. Had about seven different exasperating calls, at my expense, each one involving several different idiots all passing the buck, but essentially saying that I need to speak to BT!!!!!.....aargh!!

 

[BTB 500]

I've just spent 2 months unsuccessfully trying to get my Tiscali speed upped from 512kb. Despite their tech. people performing an 'intrusive line test' (?) which confirmed BT's figure of 5.5mb, and half a dozen internal 'service requests', they finally said it just couldn't be done

Not worth switching to another supplier as I'm moving house later in the year, I will terminate Tiscali at that point.

Shame, because the actual connection has been very reliable indeed.

 

[w124coupe]

Re AOL, you will not be able to contact BT for them as they need to arrange the change via BT Wholesale who only deal with ISPs (they are prevented by regulation from dealing with joe public).

We use BT for the Total Broadband package as the VoIP second line (for the chattering teenagers) and the free Openzone minutes (remote e-mail for me) make sense for us.

 

[agatward]

with all the Db losses involved in a line - if one is mates with a BT engineer, could one get a faster connection?

No. The dB line losses affect whether a device will sync to the DMT data train or not. Even the new "limits" BT have put in place cause problems on certain types of phone line, I had to move from BT because my phone line is supplied on aluminium rather than copper cabling so caused sync losses due to high dB loss and low SNR values. Of course the copper/aluminium joint in the terminal block on the outside of my house doesn't help too, corrodes to buggery and back as soon as it even smells water.

ie if tyhe lines were cleaned / made better (eg soldered not IDC) would it be 'better' ?

Yes and no, it all depends on your line. Unfortunately trying to persuade BT to do this is an effort and a half - even the regular BT engineers that come in to work (we have one of their fibre distribution points in one of our data centres) have said that they only solder things as a last resort and generally if it doesn't work on IDC or screw terminals, they just say it can't be done.

What's most annoying though is my friend in Sweden has 100Mbit internet (100Mbit down, 10Mbit up) delivered on fibre to his house... if only

 

[reflexboy]

ie if tyhe lines were cleaned / made better (eg soldered not IDC) would it be 'better' ?

Doubt it...........

I had to move from BT because my phone line is supplied on aluminium rather than copper


Conductors aside, some underground cables are still lead sheathed, with brown paper insulating the conductors.....My job gets fun when the a lead sheathed cable splits and the damp/water gets onto the brown paper.