Covid-19 Discussion

[Deleted member 37751]

I agree, this crisis is brutally dividing society on several levels.

The link doesn’t really cover that little sidestep of yours; it covers the catastrophic effect this is having on the young and those on low pay.

Firstly, the young vs the old.

The old folk that I know (65 and above) think the whole Covid situation has been handled disastrously for their grandchildren - “it’s the kids I feel sorry for, we’ve had our lives” a (contrary to many forum posters) common refrain I hear.

Then, those who adhere to the rules vs those who flout them.

Away from the likes of the Daily Heil headlines, I see 99% of people adhering to wearing of masks and social distancing but, granted, that doesn’t mean my own experience is indicative of everywhere else.

And last, those who lost everything during last year, vs those who made a fortune during this crisis.

They’re the few extremes - the more important gap (as shown in the article) between those at the lower end and the middle classes will and is widening dramatically due to the covid response.

Our strength as a community is really being tested by COVID-19.

I think the response to Covid has ripped the plaster from the gaping wound where “community” is concerned; some live in ivory towers and think all the poor have to do is “work harder” then they won’t be poor but what they don’t realise is that no-one succeeds on their own; there are numerous factors that determine your fate.

 

[davymead]

AIUI, the Pfizer vaccination is only being administered at hospital facilities due to the low temperature storage requirement, and that's by no means at all hospitals either. This is a key reason why roll-out to care home residents was, and I believe remains, very limited for this particular vaccine.

Bearing in mind your friend's age and health condition, he is in a priority group. My guess is that there is no facility offering the Pfizer vaccine nearer to him that he can access so he will be prioritised to receive the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine at a local surgery.

Pfizer inoculations being administered on the IOW at non Hospital locations.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Suppression has been tried. Delay does not work as it is too detrimental to 99% of society. Time to try a different approach.

Instead of extreme suppression lets try extreme mitigation. Protect those at risk by totally isolating them from the rest of society. London is full of empty 5 star hotels at the moment.

That’s a good idea. Isolate the 14 million, or whatever the number at risk, and leave them to rot because isolation means not going near them.

 

[ChipChop]

That’s a good idea. Isolate the 14 million, or whatever the number at risk, and leave them to rot because isolation means not going near them.

Leave to rot. No. Focussed protection of those at risk. Exactly like infectious diseases hospitals of old or surprise surprise modern NHS Infectious and Tropical disease secure wards.

Newcastle Upon Tyne had an infectious diseases hospital all on its own on what is the Town Moor. To this day it is still an area defined by a fence.

Newcastle, Town Moor, Smallpox Hospital Enclosure

sitelines.newcastle.gov.uk

 

[Scooby_Doo]

PHE documents have clear notes in the first paragraph. Also a lovely clear graph is present.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/950313/Weekly_report_mortality__w1.pdf

https://assets.

Deleted

 

[Gollom]

Suppression has been tried. Delay does not work as it is too detrimental to 99% of society. Time to try a different approach.

Instead of extreme suppression lets try extreme mitigation. Protect those at risk by totally isolating them from the rest of society. London is full of empty 5 star hotels at the moment.

I heard that the number of people would exceed 10 million. If this is true, the idea (while possibly laudable) is simply not workable.

Also, let's say that you put 500 people in a hotel. One person contracts the virus so given that the hotel is full of people at risk you would need to either move them somewhere else (where?) or confine them to their rooms

 

[zipdip]

I have given up trying to work out all the covid data thrown at you,I have worked out roughly that there needs to be 58,795,000 people to die before I am King

 

[ChipChop]

I heard that the number of people would exceed 10 million. If this is true, the idea (while possibly laudable) is simply not workable.

Also, let's say that you put 500 people in a hotel. One person contracts the virus so given that the hotel is full of people at risk you would need to either move them somewhere else (where?) or confine them to their rooms

Anything is workable with the political will, which there will never be now as the suppression path has been chosen by the majority of Western countries.

I would assume pre-quarantine all 5 star hotel guests would be tested to be certain they were not carriers whilst enjoying 5 star luxury for X months until it was safe to re-emerge back into a Covid immune outside world.

 

[ChipChop]

I have given up trying to work out all the covid data thrown at you,I have worked out roughly that there needs to be 58,795,000 people to die before I am King

You are pretty high up the pecking order list then

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I have given up trying to work out all the covid data thrown at you,I have worked out roughly that there needs to be 58,795,000 people to die before I am King

that’s given me the biggest laugh of the day!

 

[Gollom]

Anything is workable with the political will, which there will never be now as the suppression path has been chosen by the majority of Western countries.

I would assume pre-quarantine all 5 star hotel guests would be tested to be certain they were not carriers whilst enjoying 5 star luxury for X months until it was safe to re-emerge back into a Covid immune outside world.

I heard that the number of people would exceed 10 million. If this is true, the idea (while possibly laudable) is simply not workable.

Also, let's say that you put 500 people in a hotel. One person contracts the virus so given that the hotel is full of people at risk you would need to either move them somewhere else (where?) or confine them to their rooms

Not workable. There WOULD be people who refused. There WOULD be people who broke isolation. Who polices it? Who delivers supplies?

What you are suggesting is tantamount to total state control which (I think) you are totally against

 

[ChipChop]

Not workable. There WOULD be people who refused. There WOULD be people who broke isolation. Who polices it? Who delivers supplies?

What you are suggesting is tantamount to total state control which (I think) you are totally against

Yes and that is fine. If you choose to take the risk that is down to the individual. I would suggest though that when a deadly virus is on the loose most would not refuse and would not break out of their 5 star temporary jail.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Not workable. There WOULD be people who refused. There WOULD be people who broke isolation. Who polices it? Who delivers supplies?

What you are suggesting is tantamount to total state control which (I think) you are totally against

Indeed. And who would be providing the services for those “enjoying 5 star luxury”? Who would clean the rooms, change the bedding, top up the mini bars, serve the food, pour the Champagne, ...?

 

[Gollom]

Yes and that is fine. If you choose to take the risk that is down to the individual. I would suggest though that when a deadly virus is on the loose most would not refuse and would not break out of their 5 star temporary jail.

May be down to the individual, but he/she could sneak out and then bring the virus back and infect the whole establishment?

"most would not refuse and would not break out..." Only takes one person. How would you then punish?

Who polices it? Who delivers supplies? Who (as per Knighterrant) provides the services needed? Who fixes things that get broken?

 

[markjay]

Yes and that is fine. If you choose to take the risk that is down to the individual. I would suggest though that when a deadly virus is on the loose most would not refuse and would not break out of their 5 star temporary jail.

That's The Great Barrington Declaration all over again... I think we should finally give it a rest. It hasn't been seriously considered by any government anywhere in the world, and there's little prospect of it being implemented - especially now that the vaccination programme is in full swing. Continuing to debate it at this late stage amounts to a purely academic exercise of 'what might have been'.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

The old folk that I know (65 and above) think the whole Covid situation has been handled disastrously for their grandchildren - “it’s the kids I feel sorry for, we’ve had our lives” a (contrary to many forum posters) common refrain I hear.

The old folk I know, of which there are many, feel sorry for everyone including the kids. Our grandchildren (I have four) are being raised to be as resilient as they can, to fight against adversity and to succeed. We know better than them that it will be tough, we know better than them that they’ll face challenges we never had to, we know better than them that sitting around complaining about how the Covid situation has been handled will achieve nothing. We‘re far from happy about how everything has been handled, but we know that it’s far easier to criticise than it is to provide solutions. We’ve learnt to live with what we have, it hasn’t always been a bed of roses.

Away from the likes of the Daily Heil headlines, I see 99% of people adhering to wearing of masks and social distancing but, granted, that doesn’t mean my own experience is indicative of everywhere else.

Do you see 99% of supermarket shoppers using the sanitiser provided at the entrance? When doing my weekly shop this morning I stood for a few minutes to observe. Without actually counting, I would estimate that less than 50% of the customers bothered. No particular age group was worse than others. Tesco say that they’re refusing entry to people not shopping on their own; it was better than the last few weeks but there were still several couples shopping together - all over 65! Everyone was wearing a mask but again it appeared to be the older people not bothering too much with social distancing. I wonder what percentage adhere to the third of the safety mantras and thoroughly wash their hands when they get home.

They’re the few extremes - the more important gap (as shown in the article) between those at the lower end and the middle classes will and is widening dramatically due to the covid response.

IMO it’s only those who believe in a class system who perpetuate it. Remove those perceptions and perhaps the inequalities will shrink too. “Them and us” will never be able to work together for the common good. We all need each other.

I think the response to Covid has ripped the plaster from the gaping wound where “community” is concerned; some live in ivory towers and think all the poor have to do is “work harder” then they won’t be poor but what they don’t realise is that no-one succeeds on their own; there are numerous factors that determine your fate.

In my experience Covid has strengthened community. The way that I’ve seen people around where I live helping each other has been fabulous. I’ve finally got to know people who have been neighbours for many years. There’s a general sense of awareness of others now; the jungle telegraph (aka Facebook etc.) has been working overtime to ensure we’re all cared for as much as possible. People have been getting together (virtually) to talk about how best to help others, whether it’s to do a bit of food shopping for people in self-isolation, drive elderly for their vaccinations, or whatever’s needed. This community has come together more than I could have ever thought.

You’re absolutely right, no-one succeeds on their own. The way that people are working together now like never before has been key. Appreciation has definitely grown for all the contributions made by everyone around us.

 

[SW18]

Oh, that’s ok then... But hey, no problem, most of the 1% are coffin-dodgers anyway.

Honestly, at times I have no idea where you’re coming from.

...anywhere contrary, it seems! But that’s ok, it keeps this thread alive and well and often very interesting.

 

[markjay]

The link doesn’t really cover that little sidestep of yours; it covers the catastrophic effect this is having on the young and those on low pay.

True, I expanded on the original topic.

The old folk that I know (65 and above) think the whole Covid situation has been handled disastrously for their grandchildren - “it’s the kids I feel sorry for, we’ve had our lives” a (contrary to many forum posters) common refrain I hear.

I was referring to The Great Barrington Declaration, I.e. the controversial proposal for isolating older people so that the younger population can continue and go about their business as usual.

Away from the likes of the Daily Heil headlines, I see 99% of people adhering to wearing of masks and social distancing but, granted, that doesn’t mean my own experience is indicative of everywhere else.

I live in Central London. During the first lockdown you could surf on a skateboard in the middle of tbe road, the streets were that empty.

During the second lockdown there was mild traffic.

During the third lockdown, the traffic is now very heavy, and the usual traffic congestion of old is now back on fasion. This is in spite of a £15 Congedtion Charge that applies from 7am to 10pm, 7 days a week. Where is everyone going?

They’re the few extremes - the more important gap (as shown in the article) between those at the lower end and the middle classes will and is widening dramatically due to the covid response.

With this I agree. I know of many small business owners who now live on handouts, and people who were made redundant because their employers shut their doors. We have clients in the hospitality sector and the retail sector, abd they all had to lay people off - the Furlough scheme only goes that far.

On the other hand, IT firms, couriers, online retailers, suppliers to the NHS, manufacturers of cleaning and hygiene products, are among those who see business booming like they have never seen before. These is what some of our clients tell us.

The gap is definitely widening.

I think the response to Covid has ripped the plaster from the gaping wound where “community” is concerned; some live in ivory towers and think all the poor have to do is “work harder” then they won’t be poor but what they don’t realise is that no-one succeeds on their own; there are numerous factors that determine your fate.

Agreed.

 

[SW18]

Some new info on Lateral Flow tests is out after a more definitive study, here’s a quote from an FT article:

“The [study's] authors said that previous studies compared LFDs to the gold-standard PCR tests, which “overshoot” by picking up pre and post-coronavirus infectiousness. The Oxford study found that by contrast, LFDs are very good at finding individuals who have a high viral load and are responsible for the majority of onwards transmission.”

The actual study is here: http://modmedmicro.nsms.ox.ac.uk/wp...01/infectivity_manuscript_20210119_merged.pdf

 

[SW18]

Society is being destroyed for an issue that does not effect 99% of the population. Makes you wonder why they have chosen this catastrophic course of action. It is certainly not for the health benefit of the majority within society.

Because 1% of 60,000,000 is still a fairly big stack of bodies.

99% is bigger than 1%.

It just so happens that 1% of the U.K. population is (roughly) 600,000 people! I wonder where I’ve heard that figure before...?