Deadlock; How do you prove something?

[Deleted member 37751]

I've just been with my friend to check the repair that has been done to his BMW following an accident, the repair being the O/S front and back doors.

While he is inspecting the car, he notices a hole drilled in the edge of the rear door. The kind of hole you drill to insert the device that helps you pull out the dents.

The repairers (who shall remain anonymous for now) are denying all knowledge, in fact they became very indignant fairly quickly.
If they'd have just said to my friend 'yes, we did it and we have forgot to plug the hole' or simply owned up and tried to liase with my friend, he would have been more than fair and worked something out.

As it stands, they have called him a liar and that it was already there when they repaired the door and he must have noticed it before. This is the same man that cleans his car at least twice a month, he even uses cotton buds for certain jobs if that gives you an idea to how fussy he is with his cars.
They expect to get him to agree that this was already done but he is adamant that he will refuse the car.

Does anybody know where he can take this case if they continue to stick to their story?

 

[corned]

Does he, or his insurance co, have photos of the damaged door, i.e. prior to repair?

 

[Sp!ke]

A picture of the location of the hole would help me understand this one a little better I think.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

A picture of the location of the hole would help me understand this one a little better I think.

Not a picture of the actual car, it's mine, but just to show where the hole is

 

[jonnyboy]

The fact that they didnt ring him to say "about this pre-existing hole in the door, what do you want us to do with it? Wanna slip us some readies and we'll repair it at the same time?" tells it's own story perfectly. Who on earth would ever repaint over pre-existing damage on a panel without speaking to the customer first??????

Cockup.

 

[Sp!ke]

sorry, I still dont know where the hole is supposed to be without some kind of indication in the picture.

x marks the spot?

Also, how big is the hole and was the door deformed in that particular area.

Could the door even be off another car?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

sorry, I still dont know where the hole is supposed to be without some kind of indication in the picture.

x marks the spot?

Also, how big is the hole and was the door deformed in that particular area.

Could the door even be off another car?

The hole is at the top of the inside edge of the door. It's about 12mm (1/2") in diameter.

I should have taken a picture... but, as you can see from me taking a picture of mine, it's a very hard angle to get in.

 

[corned]

12mm is way too much for one of those little dent puller thingies.

In fact, I believe that nowadays they spot-weld little pins to the outside of the dent and pull straight, then grind off the pins and smooth over.

12mm sounds more like a hole which a wiring harness (or similar) would pass through.

I thought you would be talking about a hole no more than about 2mm in size!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

12mm is way too much for one of those little dent puller thingies.

In fact, I believe that nowadays they spot-weld little pins to the outside of the dent and pull straight, then grind off the pins and smooth over.

12mm sounds more like a hole which a wiring harness (or similar) would pass through.

I thought you would be talking about a hole no more than about 2mm in size!

Because of the angle, you would have great difficulty drilling the hole whilst the door is still attached to the car.

 

[corned]

In that case, I think we do need pictures of the actual door in question!

Does the hole have rough, unpainted edges, or are they covered?

What car is it - is it possible to compare with another similar model?

I'm beginning to suspect that it's a hole made in manufacture, and the repairer's only mistake is losing the gromet which previously sealed it!

 

[Aoraki]

Because of the angle, you would have great difficulty drilling the hole whilst the door is still attached to the car.

Surely a pre existing hole then? Why would the body shop remove the door? I'm with Corned on this one.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

What car is it - is it possible to compare with another similar model?

I'm beginning to suspect that it's a hole made in manufacture, and the repairer's only mistake is losing the gromet which previously sealed it!

It's a 3 series.

We thought similar to you, the problem with that was we were in a 3 series hire car and it didn't have this same hole.

It looked like it had been drilled very recently, there was no oxidising around the hole.

 

[developer]

It's a 3 series.

We thought similar to you, the problem with that was we were in a 3 series hire car and it didn't have this same hole.

It looked like it had been drilled very recently, there was no oxidising around the hole.

Hello Lee,

Put your concerns on a BMW forum and see what they say.

You'll get answers from those with the same model number who, hopefully, have a similar hole in their door.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Hello Lee,

Put your concerns on a BMW forum and see what they say.

You'll get answers from those with the same model number, who, hopefully have a similar hole in their door.

John,
The other rear door didn't have this same whole and neither did the 3 series we were in which was the same age.

 

[Dieselman]

If the repairer has drilled a hole to use a paintless dent tool, is that important?

 

[developer]

John,
The other rear door didn't have this same whole and neither did the 3 series we were in which was the same age.

Accepted Lee, but you're running out of ideas, so it's worth a go even if only to add weight to your argument.

Also, if your friend puts a grommet in the hole, are there any further consequences?

Sometimes in a stalemate you gotta move on .

 

[Deleted member 37751]

If the repairer has drilled a hole to use a paintless dent tool, is that important?

Not really, but the fact that they are saying that they didn't drill the hole is.
Oh, and also the fact they are saying that my friend is lying is also important.

If they'd have simply explained why they had drilled the hole or what for, my friend would have more than likely not said too much.
But when he spotted it, they flared straight up...

This is also besides the fact that the paintwork on the drivers door is poor and the front & rear doors don't line up correctly.

 

[Dieselman]

This is also besides the fact that the paintwork on the drivers door is poor and the front & rear doors don't line up correctly.

That makes it sound like paintless dent removal wasn't used, but it all sounds like a bit of a shoddy job. Is this a proper body shop?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

That makes it sound like paintless dent removal wasn't used, but it all sounds like a bit of a shoddy job. Is this a proper body shop?

BMWs own body repair shop, no less...

 

[Dieselman]

BMWs own body repair shop, no less...

In that case, I'd complain about the general standard of repair, not just the hole.