Do we still have engine snobbery?

[RSTurbo50]

I have to say that on this forum and other forums there really does appear to be a bit of a snobbery around the ‘lesser’, ‘smaller’ 4 pot engines.

Having had a C63, C55, E350 CDi, M3’s, M5’s
And various other high performance cars, I am as happy as Larry with my ‘inferior’ E250 CDi AMG Sport Saloon.

Having picked the car up a few weeks ago, it’s covered just 61k miles, FSH and only 1 former keeper. It drives absolutely beautiful, like a new car and is without doubt the comfiest car
I have ever had. I was filling it up the other week on the forecourt and a guy came over and said ‘you should have bought the E350 instead’. I asked why when my E250 was better on fuel, in the real world just as quick and with the brilliant sound proofing in the E Class, just as quiet.

I had an E350 CDi coupe a few years ago and honestly can’t tell the difference between either in terms of performance or refinement.

I guess most people couldn’t care less what other think but the older I’m getting the more I’m noticing this badge snobbery which I think is totally unnecessary.

 

[Skd884]

Imagine how blessed i am to own a c180 !!!

 

[SpikyMikey]

Imagine how blessed i am to own a c180 !!!

As a previous C180 owner, me too!
But certainly it does seem to be a theme; in the Beemer world there always was a certain underlying theme that anything less than a '6' is second best. Maybe not so much these days as the B48 4 pots are so good.

 

[Skd884]

As a previous C180 owner, me too!
But certainly it does seem to be a theme; in the Beemer world there always was a certain underlying theme that anything less than a '6' is second best. Maybe not so much these days as the B48 4 pots are so good.

The refinement, lack of noise and comfort is honestly amazing!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I have to say that on this forum and other forums there really does appear to be a bit of a snobbery around the ‘lesser’, ‘smaller’ 4 pot engines.

Having had a C63, C55, E350 CDi, M3’s, M5’s
And various other high performance cars, I am as happy as Larry with my ‘inferior’ E250 CDi AMG Sport Saloon.

Having picked the car up a few weeks ago, it’s covered just 61k miles, FSH and only 1 former keeper. It drives absolutely beautiful, like a new car and is without doubt the comfiest car
I have ever had. I was filling it up the other week on the forecourt and a guy came over and said ‘you should have bought the E350 instead’. I asked why when my E250 was better on fuel, in the real world just as quick and with the brilliant sound proofing in the E Class, just as quiet.

I had an E350 CDi coupe a few years ago and honestly can’t tell the difference between either in terms of performance or refinement.

I guess most people couldn’t care less what other think but the older I’m getting the more I’m noticing this badge snobbery which I think is totally unnecessary.

I can’t say that I’ve noticed too much of it, either on this forum or in the real world. When I have come across it. I’ve noticed that it goes both ways.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As a previous C180 owner, me too!
But certainly it does seem to be a theme; in the Beemer world there always was a certain underlying theme that anything less than a '6' is second best. Maybe not so much these days as the B48 4 pots are so good.

(Cough) TBF, up until 2015, and the B48, weren't the straight six Beemers better engines than their four pot brother.s

(As for diesels, well that's a whole world of debate in itself)

As for Beemer V8’s isn’t there a lot of reverse snobbery going on? (Because they blow up around 60,000 miles)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I really don’t like oneupmanship, it’s not a nice quality at all - and I’d never ever do it - and that’s why I don’t think that I’ve ever mentioned what I drive on this forum.

If someone asks me, then I don’t like to ignore them, so I say “a silver one”. If they ask which model; then I play it down as I wouldn’t want them to think I am showing off.

I just say something like I drive a Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus.

I like to fly under the radar.

 

[Trickythemerc]

Over the years I have run all manner of motors. Jaguars straight six XKE AJV16 and a Cleveland V6, Rover 2600 3500 V8, Lotus twin cam. Never could see me in a diesel....>>> Now run a 220 CDI in the CLK and am quite happy with it, once you get past the cold start clatter. Warmed up and in the cruise it has all the performance I will ever need with decent MPG. And no DPF to worry about, unlike my two euro 6 Fiat ducato's that seem to need constant cash injections for emissions problems.

 

[SpikyMikey]

(Cough) TBF, up until 2015, and the B48, weren't the straight six Beemers better engines than their four pot brother.s

(As for diesels, well that's a whole world of debate in itself)

As for Beemer V8’s isn’t there a lot of reverse snobbery going on? (Because they blow up around 60,000 miles)

There probably was a bigger gap between the previous generation BMW engines 4's vs 6's than the current B48/B58 lumps.
That said, my old 320i was pretty good and last time I checked still got perfect passes on the MOT test at over 200,000 miles, despite the fanboi doom-meisters and their predictions that it would ingest itself
at the next turn of the key.

 

[SUHAILCL]

Sorry...but I'm still of the opinion that a 6 pot or more, whether it's a diesel or petrol, is generally superior to a 4 pot in terms of feel, refinement and feel good factor. I've had a V8 S class and straight six petrol and diesel BMW's in the past and my wife has owned various 4 pot petrol C classes for the last 18yrs and there's no comparison. Yes, a modernish 4 pot will do everything you need it to and is sufficient and quick enough, but rarely feels special.....oh well, I must be a snob !!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

There probably was a bigger gap between the previous generation BMW engines 4's vs 6's than the current B48/B58 lumps.
That said, my old 320i was pretty good and last time I checked still got perfect passes on the MOT test at over 200,000 miles, despite the fanboi doom-meisters and their predictions that it would ingest itself
at the next turn of the key.

But who's talking about reliability and MoT passes? Wasn't it more about smooth power delivery?

Aren't the Beemer sixes famous for fuel injector and coil pack issues after all ?

 

[BTB 500]

The only real 'snobbery' I've been aware of was in relation to the 4-cyl AMGs (A45 and then A35) when those came out - some regarded them as not being 'proper' AMGs as the other models were all V8s. I suspect that has softened over time as V8s are largely a thing of the past now anyway.

We've had two petrol-engined C Class estates - A W203 with a 2.5 V6, and now a W205 with a 2.0 4-cyl. The latter is certainly a retrograde step in some ways - it doesn't sound as good as a V6 under acceleration, and isn't as smooth (if fact it can almost sound diesel-like at low speeds. But ... the smaller 4-cyl is significantly more powerful and gives way better fuel consumption. So swings & roundabouts.

Petrol versus diesel is another matter - I've owned both side by side for 20 years (currently two of each, if you include my tractor ) so am not particularly biased either way, but diesel has always been seen by some as noisy/smelly/etc. and the image has deteriorated further with recent emissions scandals / NOx / particulates / etc. I wouldn't buy one now by choice but for purely practical reasons - I like to keep my vehicles for a good number of years and EU6 diesels are not a good proposition for this IMHO.

 

[st13phil]

I had an E350 CDi coupe a few years ago and honestly can’t tell the difference between either in terms of performance or refinement.

You’re not comparing like with like.

The E Coupé is actually a stretched W204 platform and the level of refinement of the 4-pot diesel in that is poor in comparison to what you experience with the same motor in the W212 saloon.

I owned an E350 CDI saloon and the drivetrain refinement was much better than the 4-pot E250 CDI in the same chassis.

 

[RSTurbo50]

You’re not comparing like with like.

The E Coupé is actually a stretched W204 platform and the level of refinement of the 4-pot diesel in that is poor in comparison to what you experience with the same motor in the W212 saloon.

I owned an E350 CDI saloon and the drivetrain refinement was much better than the 4-pot E250 CDI in the same chassis.

How is it much better? My E250 is super smooth, extremely refined and quiet and returns high 40’s MPG. Apart from the slight performance difference, in what way is it much better?

 

[st13phil]

As a previous C180 owner, me too!
But certainly it does seem to be a theme; in the Beemer world there always was a certain underlying theme that anything less than a '6' is second best. Maybe not so much these days as the B48 4 pots are so good.

All manufacturers have been getting more adept at taming the secondary vibration from inline 4-pot motors through sophisticated engine mounts because they have little choice if they’re going to meet emissions and efficiency targets. But…

An inline 6-pot motor has a massive advantage in terms of natural refinement because it enjoys perfect primary and secondary balance.

 

[st13phil]

How is it much better? My E250 is super smooth, extremely refined and quiet and returns high 40’s MPG. Apart from the slight performance difference, in what way is it much better?

Try one. You’ll be surprised. By comparison, and I accept that the E250 CDI is pretty good in terms of refinement, the 350 is in a different league in the same chassis.

 

[ToeKnee]

You mean Mercedes make 4 pots?? Who knew.......

 

[DITTRICH]

My 4 cylinder 2.3 litre M111 wasn't as refined a 6cylinder, but it was built like brick privy and did 230k miles.

 

[IanMB]

I do feel that large luxury vehicles should have big engines, but I don't have any snobbery when to comes to engine cylinders or size, I don't look down on a 4 cylinder 2.1 engine, I've had a few 4 cylinder engines myself in my time, but, probably due to my age, I do have the mindset that a larger engine isn't working as hard as a smaller engine when cruising at 70mph on a motorway and therefore it possibly has a longer lifespan. At the same time it does seem a bit abstruse that some 4 cylinder 2l diesel engines are now producing well in excess of 200+bhp. Eh, what do I know, I'm a dinosaur whose stuck in the 80's - you pays your money, makes your choice and drives what you like - just be safe and sensible

 

[ALFAitalia]

5 or more pots always feels nicer to me... aside from the fact they are naturally smoother than a four pot and they nearly always sound better. The latest generation of small 4 pots with high levels of boost leave me cold..... and I suspect we won't be seeing any but the highest maintained of them reaching the sort of mileage that unboosted bigger capacity lumps routinely reach. My current car is a lowly 4 pot derv. ..... but i bought when I was doing more miles than the Enterprise so it was the "sensible choice". With one exception I've not owned a four pot petrol since my Mk 2 Golft GTI in about 1998! The exception was my w209 CLK 200..... but it was fairly agricultural and even with a manual box was just gutless. With one or two exceptions it's six or eight pots for me next. 2 four pots I like the feel of and would buy is the 280 brake one in the ALFA Giulia Veloce....its turboed but its still two litre and has that Lancia Delta "likes to be revved hard" feel about it and, surprisingly even to me, the two litre Jaguar XF I drove recently..... but good as the engine is, reliability of the rest of it puts me off. To me its not engine snobbery it's that multi pots, by and large, feel better in a car and last longer....mostly. No offence to their owners.....but the 1.5 turbo engined C Class must rate as one of the nastiest engines I've had the misfortune to drive and should never have found its way into any Merc.