DPF's

[rigel]

Yes, but you are one person (or one plus passengers), coming in close proximity to the source of pollution for only a brief moment at a time (when trailing behind or passing opposite a diesel car).

Not that you or your passengers don't matter... it is just that in city centres there's a constant concentration of pollution sources in very close proximity to a great number of people. Think Oxford Street with thousands of shoppers and dozens of buses and taxis.

So the risk to health is greatly increased in city centres and other urban areas - the brief exposure in rural lanes may be unpleasant but it is highly unlikely to cause any permanent measurable damage to your (your passengers') health.

Of course air quality would be greatly improved if internal-combustion engined cars were eliminated altogether.

But it is about finding the right balance - and the electrical car does make sense. We may still burn carbon fuel to generate the electricity, so the overall pollution issue still remains (until such time that all our energy is derived from renewable sources and/or nuclear power plants) - but the crucial element is that with electric cars we are significantly reducing the health hazards involved by moving the pollution away from the city centres and other densely populated areas.

I for one agree with this completely.

Whatever can be done to help the removal of harmful pollutants from the atmosphere, in particular the built environment, has to be good for everybody.

We’ve managed to do it for our rivers.

 

[artyman]

DPF's are in the main a good thing, I can remember back as a child following diesel lorries, in my Dad's car and there was a distinct smell that seems less noticeable these days together with the clouds of black smoke at the slightest sign of a hill. Engines both petrol and diesel are cleaner, and surely any steps to improve the environment are to be welcomed.

 

[rigel]

Simply saying that removing a device that European legislation has now made mandatory from a diesel motor vehicle may be socially irresponsible?? i.e. exhibits disregard for the well being of your fellow citizens. The vehicle I presently drive is irrelevant to the argument. That's a bit like saying you can't have an opinion on racial prejudice unless you are black. It's quite possible, even likely, in the future I will purchase a diesel vehicle but I have concluded somewhat reluctantly removing the catalytic converter on my present petrol car or the diesel particulate filter on any " future" diesel car I may own is "on balance" not a good thing for society in general despite their undoubted technical short comings which I can fully understand owners are frustrated with . I have tried to illustrate that by direct reference to refereed published evidence--- the replies disagreeing with me have been somewhat scant in that aspect of their argument so I'm not sure who is doing the ranting [ if any exists] here.

Graeme, I for one salute you,

and I agree with your view that it is “socially irresponsible” to wilfully remove anything that is deemed beneficial to the environment.

 

[st4]

Graeme, I for one salute you,

and I agree with your view that it is “socially irresponsible” to wilfully remove anything that is deemed beneficial to the environment.

How far do you take that argument?

I see you drive a W124. Is it socially irresponsible of you to drive an older, more emitting car thats not nearly efficient as a newer car? Is it socially irresponsible to drive?

Should I, with a non DPF diesel, be socially repsonsbible and fit a DPF just so Bellow can sit in his garden and not smell my car?

Maybe it is. But I really couldn't care less about the PC lahdeedah tree hugging hemp bag using, gaurdian reading, muiseli eatign, fruitloops out there. **** 'em is that I say.

 

[whitenemesis]

I guess that's the omission/ commission argument in legal terms ?? In moral terms it could be argued that by removing a factory fitted DPF is morally wrong since its purpose {flawed or otherwise} is ostensibly protect the health of others and would constitute an act of commission. Driving a car without a DPF would have exactly the same effect environmentally but would constitute an act of omission since there has been no action on the part of the owner to change the status quo. Morally the defence of this situation would be to ask if it was reasonable for any individual to design and install a working DPF system themselves -- and I reckon the answer to that is no.

So in one case someone has actively tried to circumvent something and in the other the person is effectively powerless to do anything about. Morally different but environmentally the same?

How far do you take that argument?

I see you drive a W124. Is it socially irresponsible of you to drive an older, more emitting car thats not nearly efficient as a newer car? Is it socially irresponsible to drive?

Should I, with a non DPF diesel, be socially repsonsbible and fit a DPF just so Bellow can sit in his garden and not smell my car?

Maybe it is. But I really couldn't care less about the PC lahdeedah tree hugging hemp bag using, gaurdian reading, muiseli eatign, fruitloops out there. **** 'em is that I say.

What a charming young man!!

I think grober already covered that argument Steve ...

 

[st4]

What a charming young man!!

I think grober already covered that argument Steve ...

I might get mine de-catted then when the cats fail. I'm just creating an act of omission, or if I buy one of those nice BMW 320d's and the DPF fails, well, I won't replace it, and I will just be acting out an act of omission.

Perhaps then, if you see someone getting beaten in, and you don't do anything or phone for help, you are not wrong, you are just omitting to doing something.

So, is that argument valid, and where does the line get drawn.

Although, I am not fussed, I would phone for help or doing something in the fight scenario, and but if my cat goes, ah well, straight through pipes for me. If we all did it, the world would not be so bad, people survived cities with diesel fumes from 50 years ago plus....

 

[Oli]

I wouldn't have anything against a DPF if they were well engineered and thought out, but having to drive along at a steady 50 MPH for what 20 minutes? to clear it out every few weeks isn't something I would want to do, yes sure I probably would do this type of drive within the time but I also do alot of town driving and I wouldn't want to have to especially make an extra trip and use more fuel in the process, partly negating the efficiency advantage of a diesel.

 

[markjay]

I wouldn't have anything against a DPF if they were well engineered and thought out, but having to drive along at a steady 50 MPH for what 20 minutes? to clear it out every few weeks isn't something I would want to do, yes sure I probably would do this type of drive within the time but I also do alot of town driving and I wouldn't want to have to especially make an extra trip and use more fuel in the process, partly negating the efficiency advantage of a diesel.

I seem to remember reading that the financial brake-even point for diesel car ownerships is around the 15k miles a year. With this kind of mileage (and upwards) - typically achieved on long motorways runs - the PDF should regenerate fine and give no grief.

So I think that the manufacturers did not envision a situation where private owners buy (expensive) diesel-engined cars and only use them infrequently and/or for short trips, as we seem to be doing here in the UK.

 

[Dieselman]

DPF's are in the main a good thing, I can remember back as a child following diesel lorries, in my Dad's car and there was a distinct smell that seems less noticeable these days together with the clouds of black smoke at the slightest sign of a hill.

None of that has anything to do with DPF, but your post does highlight how the public are easily conned.

 

[st4]

None of that has anything to do with DPF, but your post does highlight how the public are easily conned.

Bellows post of me avoiding my stink is the best though. Given nearly 50% of the cars on the road are diesel, and I can complete big journeys without being stunk off the roads (in amongst the smelly diesels) along with millions of other people day in day out, well before euro 4 even was on the go ,suggests perhaps we have a little diesel lynch mob on here.

 

[Oli]

I seem to remember reading that the financial brake-even point for diesel car ownerships is around the 15k miles a year. With this kind of mileage (and upwards) - typically achieved on long motorways runs - the PDF should regenerate fine and give no grief.

So I think that the manufacturers did not envision a situation where private owners buy (expensive) diesel-engined cars and only use them infrequently and/or for short trips, as we seem to be doing here in the UK.

I think that's a fair point actually, I wouldn't favour a new diesel as a daily driver though, I got a 2002 C220 CDI which doesn't have a DPF, the reason being the price difference to buy one over a petrol at that age is very small and I would like to take advantage of the fuel economy, plus I'm soon to buy a new fun car to replace the E55 for the weekend etc, in this case a used diesel is a more cost effective option for me but if I were buying new and only doing about 9k miles a year it just wouldn't be worth the extra cost, plus with modern diesels being more complicated-DPFs, complicated injection systems etc, perhaps we will see more people switching back to small efficient petrol engines, which seem to make more sense for town driving to me.

 

[grober]

THIS QUITE AN INTERESTING ANALYSIS http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2004/session12/2004_deer_seguelong2.pdf

I would draw your attention to the technology types on page 9 and which manufacturers have implemented them --- the regeneration graph on page 19 -- the cost evaluation of the various technologies on page 26-- future developments page 29 and conclusions on page 32.

What this illustrates is the complexity of the subject--- there are fundamental differences in the technologies used------ that choices of adoption of particular technologies may not always be based on what's the best available ----but that other factors economics--- patents/licensing--- may play apart in what ends up in your car. and whose deficiencies or otherwise you may end up paying for!

Its dated from 2004 and technology has moved on obviously but illustrates the point quite well I think.

 

[Bellow]

Maybe it is. But I really couldn't care less about the PC lahdeedah tree hugging hemp bag using, gaurdian reading, muiseli eatign, fruitloops out there. **** 'em is that I say.

You'll need a c0ck for that - unlucky.

And by the way - Clarkson is keeping his jobs - so you can quit auditioning as his replacement.

 

[rigel]

How far do you take that argument?

I see you drive a W124. Is it socially irresponsible of you to drive an older, more emitting car thats not nearly efficient as a newer car? Is it socially irresponsible to drive?

Should I, with a non DPF diesel, be socially repsonsbible and fit a DPF just so Bellow can sit in his garden and not smell my car?

Maybe it is. But I really couldn't care less about the PC lahdeedah tree hugging hemp bag using, gaurdian reading, muiseli eatign, fruitloops out there. **** 'em is that I say.

At the risk of getting flamed here, I did more miles on my bicycle last year than I did in my W124 , but I don’t think that’s the point here.

I haven’t removed anything from my car that could adversely affect the health of others.

 

[Buster'stheboy]

rigel, why is your text so small? I can't read the bottom line without glasses.

 

[rigel]

rigel, why is your text so small? I can't read the bottom line without glasses.

spelling has never been my strong point, so i tend to type in word first using the inbuilt spellchecker, then cut and paste.

for some reason the font size gets altered. i have tried to edit it bigger but to no avail.

i can only appologise for the small text, and will try and pay more attention next time i post.

sorry

 

[st4]

You'll need a c0ck for that - unlucky.

And by the way - Clarkson is keeping his jobs - so you can quit auditioning as his replacement.

I've missed you....

We need more Clarkson thinking on here. DPF removal is great. I applaud the companies supplying this service. Let me guess, you do to

 

[Dean-C250]

Can anyone recommend a garage to remove dpf for C250 in the midlands, thanks in advance.

 

[Parisien]

So, are any of the current generation of MB diesels affected by PDF issues?


P

 

[vito stan]

So what about the emissions caused by making power for electric cars