Droning noise and judder in D. Any help would be appreciated

[edonmez]

Hi Guys, I am proud owner of an early w203 C180. 2001 with 2 liter engine without kompressor.

I love my car but I have a few problems which I am hoping to solve if not part from my car. Happen to bought it of a very dishonest person anyways.

The problem is when car is cold and started in the morning I get a loud groan from the engine bay. The noise lasts for a few minutes and when car warms up it stops.

Also when you start and drive when cold and stop for example at a traffic light and keep it in D brake foot applied the rev all of a sudden drops then car recovers to normal then 10 seconds later it judders again then back to normal sometimes that droning noise follows the judder but not always. As if all of a sudden it looses electrics. (how ever this is not like rev jump when you have a dirty throttle body as rev doesn't go up and down it gets back to normal position after judder)

I have got a check battery/alternator light coming on occasionally. I have replaced the alternator hoping solve the problem but it hasnt.

I have had a power loss on it about a month ago engine management light came on. restarted the car the car started the run normal but engine management light stayed on. I have got a handheld diagnosis. So scanned it and it said cylinder 4 miss fire. I have cleared the code the light went off and problem hasn't come back. I have been searching for this problem for a few months now but couldnt find any answer. By the way handheld diagnosis doesn't read any faults.

I don't know if this caused by faulty spark plug. Or is it something different. I don't know if the judder and noise and battery problem all related to each other or totally unrelated.

So far what i have done:
I have checked the steering wheel fluid thinking it may be the problem after reading about steering pump could groan if the level is not right it but the fluid is on right on correct level..

I have checked the pulleys on ac compressor, water pump, alternator, steering pump, tensioner but they all turn freely.

The ac on or off it doesn't make any difference.

Hand held diagnosis doesn't read any codes.

For my feeling the car has no performance loss it pulls like a train. Kick down works as it should gearbox goes through all gears. Changing W/S modes in split second.

The cam magnet makes a rattling noise when you start cold and it is leaking.

I know these have problem with oil going in to harness i have sorted it by tinting the harness so oil no longer goes towards ecu. Luckily i caught mine when it was only little and it has stopped going through harness now.

Thank you very much even for reading as i know it has been bit of an essay. If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[zenman63]

Timing chan rattle?

 

[Giantvanman]

Loud groan- sounds like you need to investigate further and pinpoint the area where it's coming from using a mechanics stethoscope or a long shafted flat blade screwdriver (this guy is err, well you'll see, Using A Giant Screwdriver To Find Car Noises - YouTube) but it works. A very old school mechanic showed me this trick and it isn't an initiation joke!

 

[edonmez]

Hi guys thank you very much for replies, I have had timing chain checked it is not it. Does anyone know the thing right under the alternator towards bottom of engine. Its not driven by belt but it is round and has the shape of alternator backwards if you know what i mean. Noise comes towards that way. I have also changed the spark plugs today battery alternator light is still there.

 

[edonmez]

Here is a photo of that part i have circled in red.

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http://s2.postimg.org/66yzb5ru1/2014_07_03_18_42_41.jpg

 

[Tim203]

Hi edonmez, sounds very much like a dry / worn bearing somewhere. Have you checked the water pump? As for the judder in drive with the brakes on could be the torque converter but I am not an expert on Automatics but don't think it will be long as I have problems with my w203 as well!

 

[edonmez]

Hi Tim203 I have thought maybe its tranny related. As it does it when is in Drive or in R so only when its on load if i put in N or P it wont judder. Only when its cold but the gearbox seems to be going through all gears fine. The water pump pulley seems to be turning freely too.

 

[Fon]

my bet is tranny related, and its a torque converter.

Fon

 

[brucemillar]

Are you talking about the AC compressor? That sits under the PS pump. They do groan for about 15 secs when engine is cold.

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

 

[edonmez]

Hi Fon what is best way to determine that?

The part i am on about is on the left hand side it is round shaped rught at the bottom under the alternator if you click on photo you will see that i circled in red

 

[edonmez]

I have just had another look and apparently it is the secondary air pump does anyone heard of that or problem of it before.

 

[rorf]

Secondary air pump it is, and it is electrically driven - they do wear out and start making awful noises. Usually run for about 90 secs after engine is started from cold.

 

[edonmez]

Would that cause car to have a jerk then?

 

[bing]

That would not cause the car to jerk. No one here mentioned Engine/gearbox mounts - how many miles on the car and do you know if they've ever been replaced ? Items that are commonly overlooked or ignored coz of labour involved and costs.

 

[edonmez]

That would not cause the car to jerk. No one here mentioned Engine/gearbox mounts - how many miles on the car and do you know if they've ever been replaced ? Items that are commonly overlooked or ignored coz of labour involved and costs.

Hi The car has 95k on the clock but this doesnt happen all the time and it doesnt do it while you drive it only happens if you sit in D while foot brake applied when engine cold. It doesnt do it if you put it back to P but if you wait in D or R while your foot on brake the engine acts like as if it looses electric and then recovers again. If you ignore and continue to sit on brake it does it every 5 to 10 seconds. if you put it back in to drive it doesn't do it again.

 

[Tim203]

Hi Edonmez, after some consideration it could be the oil pressure in the transmission fluctuating making the torque converter snatchy. The oil is thicker when it's cold so the relief valve/ pressure regulator might be behaving differently to when it's hot and thin. An oil change might be a good start . I don't know what your service record says but if the oil is old and dirty it could well affect the pressure relief/ regulator valve. my own car has got the lock up clutch problem having just spent £60 with an Indy to test drive it with it disabled so looks like the heat exchanger / glycol in oil problem for me!

 

[edonmez]

Thank you Tim it actually makes sense. As it only happens when its cold will get oil changes see if its going to cure the problem.