E320CDI W211, is it right for me?

[paulmc]

I own an Audi S4 with around 350bhp but am sick of putting fuel in the thing. I intended to buy an RS4 or RS6 next but every time I turn the key it is empty so enough is enough.

I have narrowed it down to 2 cars. The E320cdi or BM 530d. If I had the cash I would deffo buy the BM 535tdi but at around 30k that is just 2 much money and Merc did not take the E400 diesel to GB so that kind of stuffs that.

I will be tuning either car. Can the 320 take the extra power. I have read on here that the E320 can have probs with the gearbox due to the cooler leaking water into the box. Is this a real prob or is it just bad luck. Also should it be fixed by a call back of some sort.

I will be using the car for towing around 500 to 1000miles a year (caravan) will this be a prob for the gearbox? (I tend to tow quite fast)

On the whole I have read that the car is a very good all round motor, fast, comfy, reliable, etc etc. Is there anything specific to look out for?

I will be buying private and have no interest in a Merc warranty. I am looking at 70k as max miles.

I have had a Audi A6 2.5tdi which I chipped through CCC and was really happy with its performance and I expect the 320 to be a fair bit quicker that it so it should keep me happy.

Any suggestions or advice greatly appreciated

cheers

 

[DieselE]

I own an Audi S4 with around 350bhp but am sick of putting fuel in the thing. I intended to buy an RS4 or RS6 next but every time I turn the key it is empty so enough is enough.

I have narrowed it down to 2 cars. The E320cdi or BM 530d. If I had the cash I would deffo buy the BM 535tdi but at around 30k that is just 2 much money and Merc did not take the E400 diesel to GB so that kind of stuffs that.

I will be tuning either car. Can the 320 take the extra power. I have read on here that the E320 can have probs with the gearbox due to the cooler leaking water into the box. Is this a real prob or is it just bad luck. Also should it be fixed by a call back of some sort.

I will be using the car for towing around 500 to 1000miles a year (caravan) will this be a prob for the gearbox? (I tend to tow quite fast)

On the whole I have read that the car is a very good all round motor, fast, comfy, reliable, etc etc. Is there anything specific to look out for?

I will be buying private and have no interest in a Merc warranty. I am looking at 70k as max miles.

I have had a Audi A6 2.5tdi which I chipped through CCC and was really happy with its performance and I expect the 320 to be a fair bit quicker that it so it should keep me happy.

Any suggestions or advice greatly appreciated

cheers

In view of your post, I'm assuming you're planning to buy second hand.

I will be tuning either car. Can the 320 take the extra power. I have read on here that the E320 can have probs with the gearbox due to the cooler leaking water into the box. Is this a real prob or is it just bad luck. Also should it be fixed by a call back of some sort.

I will be using the car for towing around 500 to 1000miles a year (caravan) will this be a prob for the gearbox? (I tend to tow quite fast)

The gearbox problem is confined to W211 cars built up to September 2003. If you make sure that you only look for cars after that build date then the problem will not affect you.

I will be using the car for towing around 500 to 1000miles a year (caravan) will this be a prob for the gearbox? (I tend to tow quite fast)

On the whole I have read that the car is a very good all round motor, fast, comfy, reliable, etc etc. Is there anything specific to look out for?

I will be buying private and have no interest in a Merc warranty. I am looking at 70k as max miles.

Until mid 2005, the 320CDI had a straight six 3.2 litre engine with a five speed box. After that the car has a V6 3.0 litre engine with a seven speed box. Either set up should give you no problems with towing as both engines have at least 500Nm of torque. The only point you might like to consider (and this is a personal opinion) is whether or not the seven speed box will be changing gear more often whilst towing. Maybe a forum member who has experience of towing can comment.

Lastly, even if you are buying privately take the VIN number to a Mercedes dealer and get them to check that the car has received all upgrades. Then you should be able to avoid years of happy ownership.

 

[w124coupe]

Hi, both the straight 6 and the newer V6 E320 diesel are quick and very powerful in the midrange. The straight 6 manages about 4-5MPG better assuming it is the non-EU4 version (the particle trap stuff costs MPG).

Blassberg on here may be able to answer re tuning and the gearbox (the non-UK V8 diesel still has the 7G gearbox but its unclear whether any driveline upgrading is included with that model).

Either engine can be tuned with an add-on box or via a remap - either route gives around a 20% increase in power and torque without obvious issues.

Not sure I would use a tuned car for "fast" towing, especially with a starting mileage at 70k. Maybe consider a gearbox oil cooler upgrade if you do??

The avantgarge spec for the E-class but staying with 16inch rims gives (my opinion only!) the best ride versus handling mix - however, this is not a 5-series rival for B-roads etc.

 

[paulmc]

Ok so I need a post Sep 03 car

70k is my max miles I would say. I will have around 20k to spend so should get a good one for that. i would think it will still be the straight 6 for that sort of cash.

It will deffo go for the Avantgarge but I will prob put on 18" wheels, I just love the way they fill arches. I know this will upset the ride but I can live with that.

I will prob go for the re-map just not sure where yet.

I said I tow fast, on saying that I dont go blasting off from the light etc, I like to keep out of the way of other traffic, there is nothing worse that a caravan doing 50mpg on a good road( I know its the speed limit )

I only really use my cars power for passing as I live in the sticks and need good power to get past slower cars on short stretches of road. The A6 with 175bhp chipped was just about quick enough so the Merc should do fine. I have kind of lost the urge to blast everywhere now, must be getting old.

 

[Donk]

I bought an 04 W211 320CDI Avantgarde a few months ago, having chopped in a newish SAAB 9-5 Aero with 250bhp. Sure, on paper and when the turbo was on song the SAAB could feel a bit more urgent when it was booted, but the difference is the power of the Merc seems seamless, totally controllable and with just a great big seamless wodge of torque to push you forwards. Its still capable of pushing you back into the seat under hard accelaration, although its never going to feel as fast as your Audi of course. Then again, it should do 30-39 mpg outside of town, so you cant have it all There should also be enough grunt from 30-60 and beyond to overtake most slower moving stuff safely and easily.

I'd agree with w124Coupe about the rims, having driven one with 16 inchers as a loan car for a month. Mine has the optional 17" rims and I know what you mean about filling the arches a bit better, but it does compromise the creamy smooth ride a wee bit.

The best advice is to go and drive a few, you will soon find out if its for you. £20K should buy you a decent 04 example with a few options privately.

 

[BTB 500]

I will be buying private and have no interest in a Merc warranty.

Nobody has said it yet so I will - watch out for rust. Do some searches here.

 

[glojo]

So far, and I'm touching wood as I type, rust does not appear to be a problem. There have been the odd complaint but most have been to do with the black strip running along the roof, or the plastic\chrome strip on the bumper. Slight diesel leaks are the most common actual fault. Poor electronics on vehicles that have not been regularly serviced.

If it were me, I would only buy one with a full service history, but you intend chipping yours so that might not apply.

I feel your asking perhaps more than the car can deliver? It will never be a BMW and I would not want it that way. If you accept the Mercedes for what it is then I am sure you will be happy.

John

 

[chrisg]

I have a pal with an '03' reg 211 Brabus 320CDI and he was asking my advice last w'end as he has started towing a car trailer with Caterham race car and finds that the gearbox 'hunts' between gears when towing. I don't know whether the Brabus tuning / mapping is causing the problem or whether it's just that a natural towing speed / load puts the engine / box in a situation where even a slight increase on the throttle is causing a part-throttle kickdown. I haven't driven the car myself yet but have suggested he tries driving it in 'manual' mode rather than full auto. Certainly not a reason to avoid the E320CDI as a tow-car but it might be worth a chat with whoever you get to tune / remap in case they can play with the settings that stimulate a down-shift. Also intend to try the 'W' setting on the box.

 

[BonzoDog]

For towing, Airmatic suspension should keep you nice and level.

 

[prprandall51]

Or get the S211 estate, which has self-levelling rear air suspension as standard, and a lovely big boot.

 

[paulmc]

Its hard to believe that a 2 or 3 year old car still has rust probs. I would have though this would be all taken car of by now.

It will deffo have a full history. I will chip it but I am very fussy with oil / filter changes, my cars always get fully warmed up before driving fast and left to cool properly after a run.

I think the Merc should tick all the right boxes for me, I like the understated appearence although at the same time it looks classy. As for performance I was happy enough with my 175bhp and 250lbs torque of my Audi A6 so the Mrec should be more than enough. I know it will be a good bit slower than my S4 but I only really use its power for passing ( must be getting old)

My Audi is the Avant but I think the Estate E class just looks too big so will go for a saloon

thanks for your replies

 

[Fady]

Now if you were anywhere near me (West Sussex), I'd offer you a ride in our cars As far as I'm concerned, the E320CDI and the 530d are more or less the same beasts and is down to either personal preference, budget and what comes up when you start looking in earnest. For what it's worth l'm quite tall and I seem to find the E more roomy both as a driver and a passenger. We've had the 530d (nominally the wife's) for a couple of months and it replaced a 540i which was acquired from her father, for the same gas-guzzling reasons as your intended switch. It's all relative, but the 535d is obviously quite thirsty for a diesel (quoted mpg figures tend to be optimistic don't they?), and because the intention was to same money at the pumps we did not consider one of those (though I dare say if the E400CDI was on these shores and in estate guise, I would have gone for one). When I looked at the E320 (bought privately), I only looked at two cars, and both were fitted with diesel power tuning boxes. However, I removed my one when I got the car as I didn't want warranty/insurance hassle. I didn't know the car well enough at that point to determine the difference. These are relatively cheap electronic devices and I'm mildly intrigued as to how they stand up against the more costly tuning options like the Brabus D6 etc. But having owned Jap sports cars and been active in car clubs and seen first hand how you can readily 'overcook' the tuning bit, I think by nature I'm more comfortable running a car as tried and tested. Yes, you are always told that a mod is inherently safe, but I always think that there's no such thing as a free lunch. My car is on 18's, and I would suspect that the 'optimum' wheel size (comfort v handling) is probably the 16's that the car comes with as standard. But again I'm perfectly happy with the ride (the car has the 3-mode airmatic suspension, but I just have it set on the firmest all the time - so a bit pointless!)

And as said earlier, it's the build date rather than the registration date that you need to be concerned with if you have the leaky radiator/knackered gearbox problem in the back of your mind, so judging from your budget this is going to be something you are going to need to at least be aware of. Does anyone know if anything has been addressed via technical service bulletins as regards this or is it simply a case of Russian roulette?

 

[jdrrco]

Just to add my two penn'orth. I have the E270 Elegance, remapped to 230bhp on 17" with Airmatic and it's a fantastic combination. Used with BP Ultimate, it is as smooth and economical as the 220, but with the power of the 320. No gearbox worries and such a solid old lump of an engine (MB as they used to be) I think it's nigh unbeatable.

 

[skemball]

I have a 2000/X 320CDi with a Vanaaken 'smartbox' I paid £150 for it recently when they were having a clearence sale. Cant detect any difference in performance or economy which is exactly what i was expecting. These guys are meant to be well respected in the idustry. Maybe i am expecting too much?

For towing remember that even in tiptronic mode you cant fix the gears like in a BMW - it will still change down on part throttle.

I have driven the newer V6 engine and whilst it is quieter and very refined i didnt feel it was as torquey or 'urgent' when pressed as the straight 6 is.

 

[paulmc]

I did not realise you could not hold the gear you want, that may change things

 

[w124coupe]

Yeah, the "tilt left to change down, right to change up" is more of a suggestion to the ECU than a control in the Mercs - nothing like the genuine manual control in BMWs.

 

[paulmc]

Yeah, the "tilt left to change down, right to change up" is more of a suggestion to the ECU than a control in the Mercs - nothing like the genuine manual control in BMWs.

so could the ecu be reprogrammed to stay in the gear selected?

 

[hawk20]

Yeah, the "tilt left to change down, right to change up" is more of a suggestion to the ECU than a control in the Mercs - nothing like the genuine manual control in BMWs.

I know what you mean but this is misleading. It is not just a suggestion. If you 'tip' down so that, for example, 3 shows in the binnacle instead of D then the box will definitely not change above 3rd gear (as is clearly stated in the handbook). This can be useful for overtaking or on hills. BUT if the clever box knows it can do better with a lower gear than 3 then it will change down. I think that is good and better than the BM system. Pay your penny.....

As for towing, I've done a fair amount with Mercs including South of France and back. Quite honestly, forget the BS, stick it in drive and let the clever box and the almighty torque of the straight six do all that's necessary. With the five speed box, and the 'silky-smooth six' as it was nicknamed, towing is a cinch. BTW I have the same straight six and five speed box in my S320cdi (new December 2005). can't fault it.

IMO worth looking with dealers and getting full MBSH. Check out prices at Direct Mercedes and Used Mercedes and you will be surprised. Bear in mind that keeping full MBSH gives you FREE breakdown cover for all drivers (£150 for a couple from the AA) and breakdown cover in Europe which is very expensive from AA/RAC like over £100 per year for multiple trips. You also get a 30 year rust guarantee which does what it says on the tin.

Finally, if you buy three years old, you can join Service PLus, which covers all MOT costs, service costs, and most repair costs for normal wear and tear up to 6 years and 120,000 miles. It is remarkably cheap. See other threads. Then you have virtually fixed price motoring and no worries. Worth checking.

I give some facts on Service Plus in posting 40 on this thread: -
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=29948&page=3 There are many other useful contributions in that thread too, of course.

 

[paulmc]

I know what you mean but this is misleading. It is not just a suggestion. If you 'tip' down so that, for example, 3 shows in the binnacle instead of D then the box will definitely not change above 3rd gear (as is clearly stated in the handbook). This can be useful for overtaking or on hills. BUT if the clever box knows it can do better with a lower gear than 3 then it will change down. I think that is good and better than the BM system. Pay your penny.....quote]

I think that will be the prob for me though. Changing down if the box/ecu sees fit. Nothing worse when you pick a gear say 4th and try to use the torque to pass a car but the box jumps down another gear. I like to pick my gear.

I used to have a VR4 with a Tip box and it was great If i picked 4th to pass nice and quietly (loud exhaust) it would stay in 4th even with my foot hard to the floor and you did not get the annoying change down that most auto have.

Maybe the BM's box will be more suited for me. I must admit I am struggling with the idea as the BM driver of today has a very bad reputation for being a male sexual organ

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

We tow with our ML270 CDi, and I just leave in D, as has been suggested by others. It does change up and down, but barely more than if not towing to be honest. Gearboxes are so smooth though, you'll only notice it change if you watch the rev counter!!

Never towed with an E, but I would imagine, either 320 or a 270 would be just fine for towing. I probably wouldn't dismiss the 220 either, as they're fairly spritely too, but the extra torque of the bigger engines might make towing more pleasurable.