• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

Electric Car Values in Free Fall as Second-Hand Prices Halve in Two Years

The Nova was indeed a car that people bought privately, like the Fiesta.

But a Mk3 Cavalier... now, that's a proper repmobile 🤔
Mine was a 'Super Rep' spec. CD model with aircon, autobox and 'I Can't Believe It's Not Walnut' wood trim.
 
If there’s more than one - and there’s sure to be, or else why comment? - then put me down for one too.
You can have the entry-level £80k one 👍

I’ve already bagged the £150k machine 😎

Just hope it can do at least 400 miles non-stop whilst towing at 85mph or it’s going to be useless for my needs 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️
 
No issue as long as it doesn’t need an expensive battery pack . Prices mentioned are pretty scary and not what buyers of used cars will want to lay out .

A petrol or diesel with a clapped out engine can always be fixed cheaply . Plenty of breakers selling engines for a few hundred . When I replaced the engine in my 190 , the engine cost me £250 , and it came with a freshly serviced gearbox still attached .

It took me one weekend to remove the old engine ( working by myself ) and the following weekend to put the new one in , so no financial cost - just my own time .

I can fix petrol cars , but wouldn’t attempt to swap out an ev battery pack , and I doubt breakers will start selling used ones anytime soon since even minor accidental damage can render them dangerous. And where would I get rid of a depleted battery pack ?

Bad enough getting rid of normal car batteries ( I normally find someone scrapping a car and chuck them in the boot ) .
 
I wonder how much a diesel Golf would have cost to run for the same journeys - fuel, servicing and repair costs - not to mention VED.
Well in my post the EV Golf was around £32 grand in 2019/20 the diesel Golf was £23 grand,so I still think what I said was valid .
 
They are like £80,000-£150,000 as new and cost like £20,000 after 4 years!
Really struggling to find these £80-150k (new) EVs which have depreciated to £20k in four years. The closest I found was a few Audi ETRON at around 3 years old, a choice of Jaguar iPace and a couple of Tesla Model X but they were 7 years old.

None of those were £80-150k (new) and £20k after 4 years though. Can you share some links please? Very interested.
 
Really struggling to find these £80-150k (new) EVs which have depreciated to £20k in four years. The closest I found was a few Audi ETRON at around 3 years old, a choice of Jaguar iPace and a couple of Tesla Model X but they were 7 years old.

None of those were £80-150k (new) and £20k after 4 years though. Can you share some links please? Very interested.
Photos would help.

I nearly bought a 7 year old Tesla 100D that had lost 60% of its new value, but 7 years and 60% isn’t four years and 80%.

(And yes, a Mercedes S500L depreciates much more than a Tesla S over the same period.)
 
Really struggling to find these £80-150k (new) EVs which have depreciated to £20k in four years. The closest I found was a few Audi ETRON at around 3 years old, a choice of Jaguar iPace and a couple of Tesla Model X but they were 7 years old.

None of those were £80-150k (new) and £20k after 4 years though. Can you share some links please? Very interested.

Probably imaginary.
 
No issue as long as it doesn’t need an expensive battery pack . Prices mentioned are pretty scary and not what buyers of used cars will want to lay out .

A petrol or diesel with a clapped out engine can always be fixed cheaply . Plenty of breakers selling engines for a few hundred . When I replaced the engine in my 190 , the engine cost me £250 , and it came with a freshly serviced gearbox still attached .

It took me one weekend to remove the old engine ( working by myself ) and the following weekend to put the new one in , so no financial cost - just my own time .

I can fix petrol cars , but wouldn’t attempt to swap out an ev battery pack , and I doubt breakers will start selling used ones anytime soon since even minor accidental damage can render them dangerous. And where would I get rid of a depleted battery pack ?

Bad enough getting rid of normal car batteries ( I normally find someone scrapping a car and chuck them in the boot ) .

True.

The only reason you can get a second hand engine for cheap is that we've been making them in their millions, and for well over a hundred years.

It will take a few more years, but once EVs become the norm, maintenance costs will go down.

But this will likely only affect the next generations....
 
True.
The only reason you can get a second hand engine for cheap is that we've been making them in their millions, and for well over a hundred years.
It will take a few more years, but once EVs become the norm, maintenance costs will go down.
But this will likely only affect the next generations....
No, Sir !!
The reason why my son was able to replace the broken gearbox in his eight year / 70k miles BMW X3, was because ICE vehicles are broken up all the time, and so the good bits get saved and recycled.

In the same way that EV's will be recycled when they too are written off for the same reasons.

We know that batteries are far more reliable than engines and gearboxes. Their recycling process has already started in earnest.

But let's not encourage ICE owners to switch to low cost electricity. The Labour Government needs the £40 billion tax revenues from fuel sales as well as the ULEZ fines.
 
No issue as long as it doesn’t need an expensive battery pack . Prices mentioned are pretty scary and not what buyers of used cars will want to lay out .

A petrol or diesel with a clapped out engine can always be fixed cheaply . Plenty of breakers selling engines for a few hundred . When I replaced the engine in my 190 , the engine cost me £250 , and it came with a freshly serviced gearbox still attached .

It took me one weekend to remove the old engine ( working by myself ) and the following weekend to put the new one in , so no financial cost - just my own time .

I can fix petrol cars , but wouldn’t attempt to swap out an ev battery pack , and I doubt breakers will start selling used ones anytime soon since even minor accidental damage can render them dangerous. And where would I get rid of a depleted battery pack ?

Bad enough getting rid of normal car batteries ( I normally find someone scrapping a car and chuck them in the boot ) .
A few considerations:

- What percentage of the motoring public does any servicing or repair work on their own vehicles, let alone an engine swap? (Answer - hardly any!)

- How many people drive old 190s or similar cars on a daily basis? (Answer - very few!)

- What are the likely fuel and servicing/maintenance costs for an old car vs. a modern EV? (Answer - fuel costs up to ten times as much, servicing/maintenance costs much higher)

You’re missing a trick with the scrap lead-acid batteries btw - most are worth c. £5-10 each so should be no problem getting someone to take them (and I’m sure any business that sells new ones or garage etc would take the old ones back if you aren’t going to weigh them in)

The honest truth is, cars have moved on a lot since the 1980s, a modern car with a clapped out engine is often scrap - the cost of even a secondhand engine plus labour to fit it would often render a ten year old vehicle beyond economical repair.

There’s a few scare stories out there about battery packs etc, whilst some people seem to have forgotten about the large amount of modern ICE engines vehicles that require very large repair bills.

I was travelling into London yesterday behind a 20-plate Range Rover (Evoke or Sport, not sure!) which was smoking really badly - likely out of warranty and I expect although repairable would cost the owner a huge amount to rectify - this is not a unique situation.

Think of all the Ford Ecoboost engines and other similar vehicles with ‘wet belts’.

Mercedes M271s with chain issues.

BMWs with chain issues and oil starvation - a neighbour of mine had to have a new 4-cyl petrol engine in their relatively modern BMW a while back (car is long gone now)

Minis again - similar engine issues I understand? I’m sure there’s plenty of others to balance the EV sceptics.

Even if the physical engine is okay, major repairs cost a lot of money to the average motorist - turbos, injectors, catalytic converters etc and that isn’t an unusual occurrence - likely most ICE vehicles will need a few such like repairs in a typical lifespan regardless if the main lump is okay.

Think of all those fluid changes - ATF etc, clutches, brakes (EVs generally use very little friction material to brake) - those costs add up over time too (100k plus miles usage)

There’s some useful data on the RAC page here - nothing EV specific, but gives some background to the number of vehicles on UK roads, where they are parked and what sort of usage patterns exist:


Some of the facts I found interesting were:

- Cars spend only 4% of the time being driven (and parked for 96% of the time).

- The majority of cars (72%) are parked on private property or garaged overnight,

- Around 34 million cars licensed/on the road

- Average annual mileage around 7k

- Average car age is less than ten years old

None of that is from an EV fact source, but it does appear to support the fact that most people could easily transition to an EV quite easily.
 
Think of all the Ford Ecoboost engines and other similar vehicles with ‘wet belts’.

Mercedes M271s with chain issues.

BMWs with chain issues and oil starvation - a neighbour of mine had to have a new 4-cyl petrol engine in their relatively modern BMW a while back (car is long gone now)

Minis again - similar engine issues I understand? I’m sure there’s plenty of others to balance the EV sceptics.
Poor design is the cause of that.
Even if the physical engine is okay, major repairs cost a lot of money to the average motorist - turbos, injectors, catalytic converters etc and that isn’t an unusual occurrence - likely most ICE vehicles will need a few such like repairs in a typical lifespan regardless if the main lump is okay.
The complexity that has crept into ICE is due to the obsession of minimising CO2 reduction when using fossil fuels. Shift to carbon neutral fuels and all of the unreliable complexity can be dispensed with.
Think of all those fluid changes - ATF etc, clutches, brakes (EVs generally use very little friction material to brake) - those costs add up over time too (100k plus miles usage)
I wouldn't be so hasty. Firstly, EV transmissions will become more complex - multi speed is already used by Porsche with plenty signs of others adopting them. Clutches are rarer now that auto trans predominates and a couple of fluid changes over the vehicle's lifetime is of little consequence. Brakes fall squarely into the 'use them or lose them' category. I'm told that some (all?) EVs exercise their brakes to prevent them from seizing but even if so, the long term reliability of that remains unknown and given what we know of electrics and brakes when combined, the prognosis isn't necessarily good.
 
Shift to carbon neutral fuels and all of the unreliable complexity can be dispensed with.
Excellent. When can you supply? We've got 35 million cars in the UK that need it

Get that done next year, and you can move on to the other billion vehicles in the world.

You'll be rich !!


Personally, I suggest that if we shift to fairy dust, all the unreliable complexity can be dispensed with.


Image 24.jpeg
 
The complexity that has crept into ICE is due to the obsession of minimising CO2 reduction when using fossil fuels. Shift to carbon neutral fuels and all of the unreliable complexity can be dispensed with.
With current tech and power sources in the UK...the only "fuel" with even the potential to be carbon neutral is electricity. Not saying things won't change but hydrogen and syth fuels are way off carbon neutral yet and of course the engines burning them will still give off toxic emissions. Never say never.....but not in my lifetime I suspect. And even after all that synthetic fuels are not at all efficient compared to using the electric to drive the car directly.



1734182603685.png
 
Excellent. When can you supply? We've got 35 million cars in the UK that need it

Get that done next year, and you can move on to the other billion vehicles in the world.

You'll be rich !!


Personally, I suggest that if we shift to fairy dust, all the unreliable complexity can be dispensed with.


View attachment 165193
What's needed is an engine that can run on your sneering. Energy problem solved.
 
What's needed is an engine that can run on your sneering. Energy problem solved.
Just pointing out the obvious.

If you and I can create, manufacture and distribute "carbon neutral fuels," we will be rich !!
The world's biggest energy and engine manufacturing companies have been over it, like a rash.
And only Porsche is vaguely on the way to "maybe" being able to create a ridiculously expensive fuel for racing and ultra-exotic cars.


A physicist, a chemist, and an economist who were stranded on a desert island with no implements and a can of food.
The physicist and the chemist each devised an ingenious mechanism for getting the can open;
the economist merely said, "Assume we have a can opener"!

 
...I'm told that some (all?) EVs exercise their brakes to prevent them from seizing but even if so, the long term reliability of that remains unknown and given what we know of electrics and brakes when combined, the prognosis isn't necessarily good.
I believe that you are referring to the MB/Bosch SBC system, which was a flop?

But the disc brakes on my EV are not electric, they are simple hydraulic brakes.

The disc brakes are being applied during an emergency stop (in addition to the motor braking), and every 10th application of the brakes to prevent them for rusting.

Not sure what issue you find with this set-up?

The other obvious point, is that using friction to slow down the car is simply converting kinetic energy to heat. The whole concept is very wasteful. In essence, you are burning fuel to accelerate the car, and you are burning fuel to stop it. This can't be a very smart idea?
 
Not saying things won't change but hydrogen and syth fuels are way off carbon neutral yet and of course the engines burning them will still give off toxic emissions.

Which roadgoing vehicles burn hydrogen?

AFAIK the answer to that is none, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles only emit water vapour.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom