Electric Car Values in Free Fall as Second-Hand Prices Halve in Two Years

[ALFAitalia]

True....but from other posts of yours I was assuming you meant using it in converted current ICE cars.....like you could with synth fuel. Fuel cell cars are EVs in everything except name.....just with another two energy wasting processes between the electricity it took the make the hydrogen (and it takes loads) and the road wheels.

Hydrogen fuel cell car....40 to 60% efficient (not including losses from compressing it etc)
EV.....over 90%.....and still over 77% even allowing for average charging losses.

 

[markjay]

Which roadgoing vehicles burn hydrogen?

Is the Hydrogen JCB tractor not road legal...?

 

[BTB 500]

True....but from other posts of yours I was assuming you meant using it in converted current ICE cars.....like you could with synth fuel.

Not me, all current ones are hydrogen fuel cell and I think that's the way it will stay (because combustion can be made ultra low emission but not - AFAIK - zero emission).

 

[BTB 500]

Is the Hydrogen JCB tractor not road legal...?

Haha good point but I don't think any of those exist yet (other than prototypes)? There was a lot of publicity from JCB last year but it's been pretty quiet since then.

 

[Pontoneer]

Excellent. When can you supply? We've got 35 million cars in the UK that need it

Get that done next year, and you can move on to the other billion vehicles in the world.

You'll be rich !!


Personally, I suggest that if we shift to fairy dust, all the unreliable complexity can be dispensed with.


View attachment 165193

Synthetic and sustainable fuels are already here : the E10 or E5 designation of your fuel indicates the percentage of bio-ethanol already going into it .

Manufacturers are already trialling synthetic fuel in classic car rallies .

Even steam locomotives can now be run on pellets of yellow material made from oil seed rape .

 

[Will]

Poor design is the cause of that.

The complexity that has crept into ICE is due to the obsession of minimising CO2 reduction when using fossil fuels. Shift to carbon neutral fuels and all of the unreliable complexity can be dispensed with.

I wouldn't be so hasty. Firstly, EV transmissions will become more complex - multi speed is already used by Porsche with plenty signs of others adopting them. Clutches are rarer now that auto trans predominates and a couple of fluid changes over the vehicle's lifetime is of little consequence. Brakes fall squarely into the 'use them or lose them' category. I'm told that some (all?) EVs exercise their brakes to prevent them from seizing but even if so, the long term reliability of that remains unknown and given what we know of electrics and brakes when combined, the prognosis isn't necessarily good.

Complexity has increased with all types of vehicles since the invention of the wheel.

And a desire to reduce pollution is not just about CO2 either. You can’t blame all mechanical issues on poor design as a result of that - it’s the reality of anything manufactured and there’s been issues with various makes/models of cars since the olden days.

We can all look back with rose tinted specs but as with life, times change. Digging heels in won’t stop the change.

Out of interest, mechanical complexities aside, do you not consider that there are any advantages to EVs at all? Whether that is reduction in localised air pollution, less reliance on burning fossil fuels (we don’t have any other readily available alternative ?), or the convenience for most people of being able to charge at home or work (or at a growing network of public chargers, if required)

 

[Will]

Synthetic and sustainable fuels are already here : the E10 or E5 designation of your fuel indicates the percentage of bio-ethanol already going into it .

Manufacturers are already trialling synthetic fuel in classic car rallies .

Even steam locomotives can now be run on pellets of yellow material made from oil seed rape .

And look how much trouble even a 90% petrol, 10% ethanol mix has caused for a number of older vehicles!

It’s really not going to work is it - the ship has already sailed and ICE vehicles are firmly being abandoned. The addition of a tiny amount of bio-ethanol has helped in the short term but will not change the shift away from combustion engines in private motor cars for the future.

Steam trains - nice for museums of course but like combustion engined cars they will be something for the history books in future.

Will be nice to preserve some for historical purposes but for everyday use, not a chance in future.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Synthetic and sustainable fuels are already here : the E10 or E5 designation of your fuel indicates the percentage of bio-ethanol already going into it .

Manufacturers are already trialling synthetic fuel in classic car rallies .

Even steam locomotives can now be run on pellets of yellow material made from oil seed rape .

Obviously we know that. Porsche Chile opened itwo years ago and F1 have been working on it for ages. Haven’t you seen Jonathan Palmer talking about it? Even good old Harry runs his classics on it.

And the answer to my question ? When can you supply? Sufficient quantities at commercial cost? 35 million vehicles in the UK and then the billion across the World.

While we’re at it, do you have a Robotaxi design as well ? And flying electric taxis to fly us out of cities?

Bristol electric 'flying taxi' firm gets £39m cash lifeline - BBC News

Vertical Aerospace will now be controlled by an American financier after the multi-million deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BTB 500]

There was a lot of publicity from JCB last year but it's been pretty quiet since then.

Coincidentally there's a new video from Harry's Farm (Harry's Garage) today on progress with hydrogen power (for both combustion and fuel cell vehicles). Includes an update from JCB, and some interesting stuff on production/storage/distribution/etc. Seems JCB are using carbon fibre tanks on the roof of their diggers, under-slung ones on other vehicles.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

West Midlands will apparently have 144 hydrogen buses (fuel cell):

West Midlands to run 'largest hydrogen bus fleet' due to new funding

The West Midlands is getting 124 new buses after securing £30m of government money.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Coincidentally there's a new video from Harry's Farm (Harry's Garage) today on progress with hydrogen power (for both combustion and fuel cell vehicles). Includes an update from JCB, and some interesting stuff on production/storage/distribution/etc. Seems JCB are using carbon fibre tanks on the roof of their diggers, under-slung ones on other vehicles.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

West Midlands will apparently have 144 hydrogen buses (fuel cell):

West Midlands to run 'largest hydrogen bus fleet' due to new funding

The West Midlands is getting 124 new buses after securing £30m of government money.

www.bbc.co.uk

Great news for those of us who return to base every, or at least most nights.

With tanks of hydrogen in the garage we’ll save a fortune in taxes.

Good news for buses, diggers and farm equipment too !

 

[Pontoneer]

Obviously we know that. Porsche Chile opened itwo years ago and F1 have been working on it for ages. Haven’t you seen Jonathan Palmer talking about it? Even good old Harry runs his classics on it.

And the answer to my question ? When can you supply? Sufficient quantities at commercial cost? 35 million vehicles in the UK and then the billion across the World.

While we’re at it, do you have a Robotaxi design as well ? And flying electric taxis to fly us out of cities?

Bristol electric 'flying taxi' firm gets £39m cash lifeline - BBC News

Vertical Aerospace will now be controlled by an American financier after the multi-million deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

View attachment 165217

The technology clearly exists , just needs to be scaled up into production , and a lot of that will depend on farming to grow the raw material .

As for the flying taxi , it looks highly inefficient . To my mind lighter than air vehicles would be better and more efficient.

We already have the Airlander company here in Britain , building modern airships ; these could be scaled down to produce lighter than air buses and taxis , which would not need significant amounts of power to remain aloft and just use electricity for propulsion . It would be easy to adapt airships to use electric propulsion rather than multiple ICE units as most currently do .

 

[Larkone]

The technology clearly exists , just needs to be scaled up into production , and a lot of that will depend on farming to grow the raw material .

As for the flying taxi , it looks highly inefficient . To my mind lighter than air vehicles would be better and more efficient.

We already have the Airlander company here in Britain , building modern airships ; these could be scaled down to produce lighter than air buses and taxis , which would not need significant amounts of power to remain aloft and just use electricity for propulsion . It would be easy to adapt airships to use electric propulsion rather than multiple ICE units as most currently do .

Not sure lighter than air taxis will be much good today and the future is looking windier

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The technology clearly exists , just needs to be scaled up into production , and a lot of that will depend on farming to grow the raw material .

As for the flying taxi , it looks highly inefficient . To my mind lighter than air vehicles would be better and more efficient.

We already have the Airlander company here in Britain , building modern airships ; these could be scaled down to produce lighter than air buses and taxis , which would not need significant amounts of power to remain aloft and just use electricity for propulsion . It would be easy to adapt airships to use electric propulsion rather than multiple ICE units as most currently do .

Certainly would make for a prettier morning commute than the Northern Line, although calling a taxi after the Christmas party could get crowded

 

[BTB 500]

Great news for those of us who return to base every, or at least most nights.

With tanks of hydrogen in the garage we’ll save a fortune in taxes.

Good news for buses, diggers and farm equipment too !

I thought there was some interesting stuff in that video. E.g. the point that most building/development sites aren't connected to the grid when construction starts, so electric vehicles (which JCB do already manufacture) would rely on diesel generators for charging.

 

[Bellow]

I thought there was some interesting stuff in that video. E.g. the point that most building/development sites aren't connected to the grid when construction starts, so electric vehicles (which JCB do already manufacture) would rely on diesel generators for charging.

Agreed, interesting stuff. Not least practical solutions to the handling of hydrogen though no mention of the cost of the carbon fibre tanks but obviously acceptable in that market place. I'd like to have heard Bamford answer why ICE not fuel cell so left to guess that the reason is a mixture of high cost and that - in Bamford's own words - ''we build engines''. Maybe he has come to the same conclusion as I have ie, it isn't the engine that's the problem but the fuel. Huge amount of credit to the Bamfords for pushing against the grain here. They are closer by far to reality than those who think everything can be electrified.

 

[BTB 500]

I'd like to have heard Bamford answer why ICE not fuel cell so left to guess that the reason is a mixture of high cost and that - in Bamford's own words - ''we build engines''.

Could just be that their application would need higher power outputs than any 'off the shelf' hydrogen fuel cell can presently provide, and they don't want to try and develop a bigger one from scratch. Car manufacturers seem to be leveraging Toyota's work - BMW are definitely using their fuel cell, and I believe Hyundai are as well.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I thought there was some interesting stuff in that video. E.g. the point that most building/development sites aren't connected to the grid when construction starts, so electric vehicles (which JCB do already manufacture) would rely on diesel generators for charging.

Exactly, they just set up a hydrogen supply on site. Simples.

 

[BTB 500]

Exactly, they just set up a hydrogen supply on site. Simples.

As per the video they'd have hydrogen delivered to the site, just as they need to have diesel delivered now. The difference would be zero local emissions, if that's important.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As per the video they'd have hydrogen delivered to the site, just as they need to have diesel delivered now. The difference would be zero local emissions, if that's important.

Exactly, as I said, it’s simple.

And great potential for all the other 35 million vehicles in the UK, if they can install similar storage, instead of just topping up their vehicles off a three pin plug when the EV’s parked up.

 

[markjay]

I am in Italy now, all the buses seem to have been replaced with new, they say METANO on the side....