Engine oil system cleaner

[markjay]

Us more mature owner's (older in other words) can't seem to get our heads around high miles service plans but as mentioned previously the oil's of today contain addertives and cleaning agents in my eye's its wrong but is it?

The majority of private owners will cover less miles annually than the service interval limit, and therefore the majority of post 2007 cars (the year when MB switched to fixed service schedule) will not reach this limit anyway.

The dilemma of whether to accept that long-life oil is indeed long-life or not, will only be relevant to those who do cover the full mileage before the year is out.

Personally, having been raised with the practice of replacing the (mineral) engine oil every 3,000 miles and the oil filter every 6,000.... I would have a difficulty in accepting long-life oil. That said, my annual mileage has been very low for the past 10 years, so I don't have this dilemma.

 

[Spider10]

The majority of private owners will cover less miles annually than the service interval limit, and therefore the majority of post 2007 cars (the year when MB switched to fixed service schedule) will not reach this limit anyway.

The dilemma of whether to accept that long-life oil is indeed long-life or not, will only be relevant to those who do cover the full mileage before the year is out.

Personally, having been raised with the practice of replacing the (mineral) engine oil every 3,000 miles and the oil filter every 6,000.... I would have a difficulty in accepting long-life oil. That said, my annual mileage has been very low for the past 10 years, so I don't have this dilemma.

Why would you change oil but not filter?

 

[markjay]

Why would you change oil but not filter?

Good question. That was the common practice when I was a young lad.

3,000 - oil change, remove spark plugs clean and regap.

6,000 - oil change, oil filter change, spark plugs change.

I suppose the (mineral) oil deteriorated quicker than the paper in the filter element did.

The API rating at the time was SE - I think we're up to SN now?

 

[geoffus]

Us more mature owner's (older in other words) can't seem to get our heads around high miles service plans but as mentioned previously the oil's of today contain addertives and cleaning agents in my eye's its wrong but is it?

We really have come a long way since our Ford Escorts were using Duckhams 20w50 and on their last legs at 100,000 miles.
But most of us driving our efficient and precision engineered motors still don't trust the latest spec synthetic oils to protect them.
We change oil well before its lost any of its properties and think it turns to sludge at 6000 miles, add fuel additives because we don't trust the fuel, thinking its gumming up the injectors and causing carbon build up.
" peace of mind" has a lot to answer.

 

[markjay]

We really have come a long way since our Ford Escorts were using Duckhams 20w50 and on their last legs at 100,000 miles.
But most of us driving our efficient and precision engineered motors still don't trust the latest spec synthetic oils to protect them.
We change oil well before its lost any of its properties and think it turns to sludge at 6000 miles, add fuel additives because we don't trust the fuel, thinking its gumming up the injectors and causing carbon build up.
" peace of mind" has a lot to answer.

The stuff is still around...:

 

[alabbasi]

We had an interesting conversation 2 days ago in a garage.

Guy 1, "651 engines are crap, fail all the time in vans and cars and a bugger to fix".

Guy 2, "not had problems, service them all the time, fit proper filters and Low Ash Oil etc. and been good".

Guy 3, (me) "same as guy 2".

Apparently "Guy 1" uses "good oil" but they only need serviced every few years or 30k miles!

Like I said, the manufacturer is not always right. Mercedes Benz has recommended stuff doesn't work out, and refused to own the problem unless they face a class action lawsuit. Head Bolts, SBC brakes, Lifetime transmission fluid. For fleet buyers, extended service intervals may be the reason they pick a Mercedes Benz over another vehicle and if you're in the business of selling new vehicles,, that's all that matters.

 

[alabbasi]

Bmw rod bearings are not from lack of oil changes they fail due to people treating it like a race car when cold as the oil is 10w-60 which is thick,,so needs to be warmed up before thrashing it as the tolerances are so small

The oil is thicker when warm which is by design. Otherwise 50 or 40 weight oil would be recommended.
I understand it. the original 10w60 oil would shear down to 40 weight over time and not provide the same lubrication which is why more frequent oil changes are required. Thrashing any engine will cause damage. On at least my old E39 BMW M5, the red line was set to 4000RPM when the engine was cold and would get progressively higher as it warmed up.

 

[Wolfie1]

Why would you change oil but not filter?

With my rx7 i change the oil every 2000 miles maximum (usually less) but only change the filter every few oil changes, been doing this for years and when i come to replace it it still looks like a new filter, filters are just made so much better and i always use a good quality filter, so that is def not an issue

 

[geoffus]

The oil is thicker when warm which is by design. Otherwise 50 or 40 weight oil would be recommended.
I understand it. the original 10w60 oil would shear down to 40 weight over time and not provide the same lubrication which is why more frequent oil changes are required. Thrashing any engine will cause damage. On at least my old E39 BMW M5, the red line was set to 4000RPM when the engine was cold and would get progressively higher as yit warmed up.

Wow, who uses 10w60 oil nowadays ?
Wasn't that just used in high temp racing engines, and I think oil is thinner when warm and thicker when cold.
It's not unusual to limit revs before the engine reaches full operating temperturature, this is basic compassion for any engine.

 

[Gazwould]

The oil is thicker when warm which is by design. Otherwise 50 or 40 weight oil would be recommended.
I understand it. the original 10w60 oil would shear down to 40 weight over time and not provide the same lubrication which is why more frequent oil changes are required. Thrashing any engine will cause damage. On at least my old E39 BMW M5, the red line was set to 4000RPM when the engine was cold and would get progressively higher as it warmed up.

That sounds like a brilliant system , how did Americans get to describe viscosity as 'weight' ?

 

[Spider10]

The oil is thicker when warm which is by design. Otherwise 50 or 40 weight oil would be recommended.
I understand it. the original 10w60 oil would shear down to 40 weight over time and not provide the same lubrication which is why more frequent oil changes are required. Thrashing any engine will cause damage. On at least my old E39 BMW M5, the red line was set to 4000RPM when the engine was cold and would get progressively higher as it warmed up.

The E90 M3 is the same ref redline but you are wrong the rod bearings could fal at 1k oil changes its nothing to do with oil break down its due to idiots mistreating the engine's just because redline is 4k doesn't mean you can sit there or drive at redline ,the pre facelift were lead and copper which were more prone thats why bmw changed to alloy and tin BUT still fail it is blown out of context imo speak to imran at evolve he will gladly explain it to you

 

[Spider10]

Wow, who uses 10w60 oil nowadays ?
Wasn't that just used in high temp racing engines, and I think oil is thinner when warm and thicker when cold.
It's not unusual to limit revs before the engine reaches full operating temperturature, this is basic compassion for any engine.

The v8 M3 uses 10w60 to say oil is thicker when warm is ludicrous ive had this rod bearing chat with professionals and the main problem is everybody buys a M3 exspecting a very fast car but its not ,driving it at low revs you may aswell buy a fiesta the E90 M3 doesn't come alive till maybe 5k and above it lacks torque i apologise for going a bit off topic

 

[alabbasi]

Wow, who uses 10w60 oil nowadays ?

BMW and Aston Martin for some of their engines. I'm not sure who else.

 

[alabbasi]

The E90 M3 is the same ref redline but you are wrong the rod bearings could fal at 1k oil changes its nothing to do with oil break down its due to idiots mistreating the engine's just because redline is 4k doesn't mean you can sit there or drive at redline ,the pre facelift were lead and copper which were more prone thats why bmw changed to alloy and tin BUT still fail it is blown out of context imo speak to imran at evolve he will gladly explain it to you

Not so much idiots mistreating engines. That happens to all engines , only the ones with poor design break often. I know my own experts on this matter and this company understands the issue well.

Rod Bearing Service - Mporium BMW

Rod Bearing Service Mporium BMW's number one job request from in-the-know M3 owners is rod bearing service. We are an official dealer...

mporiumbmw.com

 

[Spider10]

Not so much idiots mistreating engines. That happens to all engines , only the ones with poor design break often. I know my own experts on this matter and this company understands the issue well.

Rod Bearing Service - Mporium BMW

Rod Bearing Service Mporium BMW's number one job request from in-the-know M3 owners is rod bearing service. We are an official dealer...

mporiumbmw.com

So where do they mention oil service intervals? We know it's a clearance issue but the new shells have the same clearance at least APK do.so it has nothing to do with service intervals which the thread is about

 

[alabbasi]

So where do they mention oil service intervals? We know it's a clearance issue but the new shells have the same clearance at least APK do.so it has nothing to do with service intervals which the thread is about

They don't, feel free to use a Google search. It's well discussed.

 

[Spider10]

They don't, feel free to use a Google search. It's well discussed.

I know its well discussed but no mention of service intervals i had mine done as a preventative measure ( they were fine ) i had lengthy chats regarding the matter and the new shells WERE the same clearances (to be honest i wouldn't take advice from someone who thinks oil gets thicker when warm

 

[alabbasi]

I know its well discussed but no mention of service intervals i had mine done as a preventative measure ( they were fine ) i had lengthy chats regarding the matter and the new shells WERE the same clearances (to be honest i wouldn't take advice from someone who thinks oil gets thicker when warm

Good deal

 

[geoffus]

(to be honest i wouldn't take advice from someone who thinks oil gets thicker when warm

That made me smile.
Going off topic now from the original thread, we all agree to change your oIl regular and use a good synthetic. I use Fuchs flex 23 as it’s approved by MB and I’m sure my internals are clean.

 

[optimusprime]

The chap that serviced my Volvo V70 would use Forte engine flush before every oil change --why i dont know. We think our engines are clean because they get serviced on a regular basis .But if you have never used this flushing oil ,, then you will never know just what comes out of your engine on an oil change. You would hava a shock . Now, me , i do an oil change every 6 months . I have a bottle of Forte engine flush now for 12 months , but i wont use it for my own reason. Well i know my oil is clean . By just checking it on the stick i can see right through the oil on the dip stick and it looks clean to me just as if it was changed yesterday But i drove the car and gave it a good run before i changed the engine oil . It was then that i had a wide awakening, because the oil that came out of the engine ,,came out black .. So may be an oil additive would clean out the engine after every oil change . And some engines will need an additive in the oil before its changed .Lets face it some owners never do an oil change from the day they buy the car .