Engine Sludge/Flushing

[Matt23]

Hi

I purchase an 11 plate E200 SE CGI Blue-efficiency Convertible (Auto) 4 months ago from a dealer as approved used. I was told it was fully serviced, although not shown records as they are held centrally on MB's computer (practice I don't agree with as it's just an attempt to tie you to a dealer).

Over the 4 months I had repeated issues with sluggish apparently out of sync gear changes and on a couple of occasions losses of power. With very limited knowledge I guessed this to be a transmission issue and reported it as such to the dealer - basically the car has been back to them 4 times under warranty, twice fully recovered on a breakdown truck and the EML has been on 3 times.

At this point I'm regretting going anywhere near MB (longer story, the car hasn't been looked after by the dealer and was actually damaged on 1 visit).

Finally on visit 4 (after keeping the car for 2 weeks) they diagnose a large build up of engine oil sludge which has been blocking things and obviously dramatically affecting performance.

It's now been suggested that the car wasn't fully serviced and probably hasn't had an oil change prior to the 'service B' MB claim they carried out in April (approx 28k, now at 30k).

Q1. Does the above stack up? Car clearly wasn't fully serviced as claimed but is it likely no oil change until 28k and then a change and new filter would result in this problem?

Q2. Does the dealers solution sound like the right approach to take?

They are suggesting a double engine flush followed by another flush after 1k. Can anyone offer advice on whether this is sufficient/likely to be harmful in itself/what else I should say I want done (cars still under warranty and this is MB's mess to sort).

Ultimately I'm concerned about letting them off the hook too lightly so they can do the flush, wash their hands of it and I have future problems because of what they've done or just ignoring a bigger issue that.

 

[stability]

If i was you i would take it above them and write a letter to MB UK and see what they say.

The problem like you said is knowing if any damage has been done that may bite back in the future when warranty is no longer valid.

Try and get something in writing from or an extension to the warranty, they should have supplied you with the records from digital service book.
and while your at it get them to service the gearbox.

But dont stray away from MB on this one because they do not need ammunition to void any future claims you may have.

 

[tonysmb]

When you say the car was bought as 'approved used', I presume it was an MB dealer MB-approved car.

My understanding, from what sales staff have told me in the past, is that they are not allowed to sell a car as 'approved' unless it has a full history, ie serviced in accordance with manufacturer's recommendations. As far as I am aware, for a car regd. in 2011 service intervals would be 15,000 miles or 12 months, whichever occurs first, so it should have had an oil change after max of 15000 miles/12 months, before the gargage carried out your B service.

So, if they are now saying the problem could be as a result of lack of oil changes, it would be interesting to hear how that fits with the full history. Of course, maybe they weren't the servicing dealer originally and just went on what was shown on the MB system.

I would certainly be thinking along the lines of contacting MB UK, if dealer doesn't resolve your issue satisfactorily, and looking for an extension on the warranty for the engine.

 

[artyman]

You could also argue that the car was significantly not as described since if Approved Used it should have had all this done, grounds perhaps for swapping for a different car. Perhaps a mention of Trading Standards might focus their minds.

 

[E270 Owner]

Hi

I purchase an 11 plate E200 SE CGI Blue-efficiency Convertible (Auto) 4 months ago from a dealer as approved used. I was told it was fully serviced, although not shown records as they are held centrally on MB's computer (practice I don't agree with as it's just an attempt to tie you to a dealer).

Over the 4 months I had repeated issues with sluggish apparently out of sync gear changes and on a couple of occasions losses of power. With very limited knowledge I guessed this to be a transmission issue and reported it as such to the dealer - basically the car has been back to them 4 times under warranty, twice fully recovered on a breakdown truck and the EML has been on 3 times.

At this point I'm regretting going anywhere near MB (longer story, the car hasn't been looked after by the dealer and was actually damaged on 1 visit).

Finally on visit 4 (after keeping the car for 2 weeks) they diagnose a large build up of engine oil sludge which has been blocking things and obviously dramatically affecting performance.

It's now been suggested that the car wasn't fully serviced and probably hasn't had an oil change prior to the 'service B' MB claim they carried out in April (approx 28k, now at 30k).

Q1. Does the above stack up? Car clearly wasn't fully serviced as claimed but is it likely no oil change until 28k and then a change and new filter would result in this problem?

Q2. Does the dealers solution sound like the right approach to take?

They are suggesting a double engine flush followed by another flush after 1k. Can anyone offer advice on whether this is sufficient/likely to be harmful in itself/what else I should say I want done (cars still under warranty and this is MB's mess to sort).

Ultimately I'm concerned about letting them off the hook too lightly so they can do the flush, wash their hands of it and I have future problems because of what they've done or just ignoring a bigger issue that.

Your legal rights

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 sets out several rules outlining what buyers can expect when buying goods – including cars.
A car must be of satisfactory quality, which means
• A car must meet the standards a reasonable person would expect to be satisfactory, taking into account how it was described by the seller, how much it cost, the age, history and mileage
• This covers factors including the appearance, integrity, safety and durability of the car
• It should be free from defects, unless pointed out prior to purchase
Dealers may be considered liable for faults present when the car was sold, but came to light later on. They are not responsible for general wear and tear, breakdowns during regular use or problems resulting from the driver’s misuse or damage.
A car must also be as described, meaning:
• The car must match any verbal or written descriptions provided by the dealer about the car, including adverts
• It should have all the features included in the advert, and they should work properly, unless the buyer has been told otherwise
Cars should also be reasonably fit for any normal purpose, and suitable for any other purpose the buyer informs the dealer of. For example, a dealer should not sell a small hatchback to tow a caravan.
These are basic rights afforded to buyers of goods, irrespective of other warranties, breakdown cover or guarantees supplied by the dealer. Similarly, descriptions such as ‘Sold as Seen’ don’t make the dealer exempt from these legal obligations.
You can expect the dealer to have the legal right to sell the car, the mileage stated on the dashboard is genuine unless otherwise stated, and the car isn’t subject to outstanding finance. Many buyers opt for their own vehicle history check before they sign on the dotted line.
Dealers who carry the logos of trade bodies such as Motor Codes or OFT Approved will have committed to maintaining the highest standards.
How Auto Trader can help: Useful contacts
Repairs or refunds

Refunds are possible but are often considered a last resort by dealers.
• How much of a refund you can claim depends on how long you’ve owned the car, and the amount of mileage covered
• Your entitlement to a refund diminishes the longer you keep the car, although you can still ask for faults to be rectified
• You can ask for your part exchange to be returned, or request the cash value if the car is no longer in the dealer’s possession
• You can ask for a repair or replacement up to six months after purchase as long as you can prove the car was faulty at the time of sale
• You may need to get a written report from an expert, such as a mechanic or inspector from the AA or RAC, to prove a fault exists
Disputes with a private car seller

Buying from a private seller means you’re not covered by any specific laws other than those relating to the legal right to sell goods. As such, it’s important to make thorough checks.
At the very least, you should:
• Expect the car to be sold as described by the seller
• Ensure the seller has the legal right to sell the car
• Get the seller’s landline telephone number and home address
• Prepare a receipt and ensure both you and the seller keep a copy
You should always carry out a vehicle history check to ensure the car hasn’t been written-off, recorded as stolen or subject to outstanding finance before you commit to buying a car.



Returning a car - Buying advice - Auto Trader UK - Auto Trader UK - buying

 

[Perryjparker]

Hi guys,

I'm new to the site and I'm not sure where to start posting so sorry if I am posting in the wrong thread or area!! I'm currently living in Edinburgh, Scotland. I was wondering if there are any meeting or events near by me within the next few months or even weeks?does that happen through this site?
I drive a new c63 coupe. Was hoping to find some enthusiasts locally or a few hours away.
Anyway just saying hello and hopefully get a reply back soon.

Cheers

Perry

 

[markjay]

The warranty issue is tricky.

Presumably the current issues are being dealt with by the dealer under the Approved Used guaranty?

The MB new vehicle warranty will not cover you for damage caused by neglect or lack os servicing.

If it is established that the car has not been serviced then you are potentially exposed once the Approved Used warranty expires.

Will the dealer reach an amicable solution re exchanging the car?

 

[Matt23]

Thanks for the replies.

At this stage I've asked MB UK to get involved to look at the overall matter as a complaint, largely to avoid being played off by the two dealers (selling dealer, and the local dealer who currently have the car).

I'm also speaking to my solicitor tomorrow to ensure that any requests I make are made formally and are not brushed off.

I agree - my first instinct would be to reject the vehicle. The additional complication here though is that I had the car interior re-trimmed 2 months ago so even a full refund wouldn't cover this additional cost.

If an offer of a full refund, plus damages to cover the re-trim costs was on the table it would be an easy decision, but this clearly won't be offered so I want to investigate whether I have legal grounds to pursue this. The re-trimmed car is more saleable ('once fixed' than the vehicle I bought) but I have no doubt the the dealer will look to offset the value of having the car, albeit an unreliable car, for four months to produce a calculation that leaves me out of pocket.

 

[Matt23]

The warranty issue is tricky.

Presumably the current issues are being dealt with by the dealer under the Approved Used guaranty?

The MB new vehicle warranty will not cover you for damage caused by neglect or lack os servicing.

If it is established that the car has not been serviced then you are potentially exposed once the Approved Used warranty expires.

Will the dealer reach an amicable solution re exchanging the car?

Mark you're right the flush and subsequent flush/oil changes that are being suggested would be covered by the selling dealer because they fall outside of the warranty and that's part of my ongoing concern. I have 11 months warranty left and even if I managed to negotiate an extension - any future issues are likely to be outside of the warranty's scope so where's the reassurance!!

 

[Matt23]

Your legal rights

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 sets out several rules outlining what buyers can expect when buying goods – including cars.
A car must be of satisfactory quality, which means
• A car must meet the standards a reasonable person would expect to be satisfactory, taking into account how it was described by the seller, how much it cost, the age, history and mileage
• This covers factors including the appearance, integrity, safety and durability of the car
• It should be free from defects, unless pointed out prior to purchase
Dealers may be considered liable for faults present when the car was sold, but came to light later on. They are not responsible for general wear and tear, breakdowns during regular use or problems resulting from the driver’s misuse or damage.
A car must also be as described, meaning:
• The car must match any verbal or written descriptions provided by the dealer about the car, including adverts
• It should have all the features included in the advert, and they should work properly, unless the buyer has been told otherwise
Cars should also be reasonably fit for any normal purpose, and suitable for any other purpose the buyer informs the dealer of. For example, a dealer should not sell a small hatchback to tow a caravan.
These are basic rights afforded to buyers of goods, irrespective of other warranties, breakdown cover or guarantees supplied by the dealer. Similarly, descriptions such as ‘Sold as Seen’ don’t make the dealer exempt from these legal obligations.
You can expect the dealer to have the legal right to sell the car, the mileage stated on the dashboard is genuine unless otherwise stated, and the car isn’t subject to outstanding finance. Many buyers opt for their own vehicle history check before they sign on the dotted line.
Dealers who carry the logos of trade bodies such as Motor Codes or OFT Approved will have committed to maintaining the highest standards.
How Auto Trader can help: Useful contacts
Repairs or refunds

Refunds are possible but are often considered a last resort by dealers.
• How much of a refund you can claim depends on how long you’ve owned the car, and the amount of mileage covered
• Your entitlement to a refund diminishes the longer you keep the car, although you can still ask for faults to be rectified
• You can ask for your part exchange to be returned, or request the cash value if the car is no longer in the dealer’s possession
• You can ask for a repair or replacement up to six months after purchase as long as you can prove the car was faulty at the time of sale
• You may need to get a written report from an expert, such as a mechanic or inspector from the AA or RAC, to prove a fault exists
Disputes with a private car seller

Buying from a private seller means you’re not covered by any specific laws other than those relating to the legal right to sell goods. As such, it’s important to make thorough checks.
At the very least, you should:
• Expect the car to be sold as described by the seller
• Ensure the seller has the legal right to sell the car
• Get the seller’s landline telephone number and home address
• Prepare a receipt and ensure both you and the seller keep a copy
You should always carry out a vehicle history check to ensure the car hasn’t been written-off, recorded as stolen or subject to outstanding finance before you commit to buying a car.



Returning a car - Buying advice - Auto Trader UK - Auto Trader UK - buying

Thanks, I personally have no doubt I have grounds to return the car as it was misrepresented to me (yet to be confirmed by solicitor). The other issue though is that I'll end up out of pocket for the re-trimming costs and it'll be even more galling if the dealer was then able to just flush the engine and sell on my re-trimmed car.