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Gear for overtaking at 40mph

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 139087" data-quote="Muckypaps" data-source="post: 2811574" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811574" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811574">Muckypaps said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Make the time you are in the incorrect lane as short as possible, is the safest way, no in point dawdling, some idiot like yourself may be coming towards you. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>That’s why I’d prefer to wait for a lay-by and then undertake the dawdler so as not to cause inconvenience to my fellow motorists coming in the opposite direction <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">I have flappy paddles on my 'box, if I hold the left one in for a few seconds then the box automatically drops down to the best overtaking gear for the speed I'm currently going at. Then simply overtake, then hold the right paddle in for a few seconds to go back to normal &quot;drive&quot; mode.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">This is not related to the OP's very particular question, but I would make the observation that very few drivers seem to have any idea whatsoever about how to overtake safely on a single carriageway road.<br /> <br /> Instead, they seem to prefer to tailgate the slower moving vehicle, thus preventing anyone who does have the necessary skill and judgement from making their way up the queue unless there's sufficient room (which there normally isn't) for a block overtake.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 65149" data-quote="knighterrant" data-source="post: 2811636" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811636" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811636">knighterrant said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I can’t fully agree with that. You correctly state the overtaking process starting with visibility (observation) and then indication. But it’s better to have started the acceleration stage whilst still well back from the vehicle being overtaken. In this way you should be up to a safe overtaking speed BEFORE pulling out to overtake, resulting in less time being spent on the wrong side of the road. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> If you have concerns about whether you have enough tine you haven’t planned properly and shouldn’t start the overtake<br /> <br /> Pulling out first allows you to complete the final observation checks such as identifying a previously unseen junction or driveway...or pot hole..or pedestrian...etc...<br /> <br /> At least that was what I was taught when doing my ROSPA in my biking days.<br /> <br /> <br /> But if your system works for you, fine, just nail the bastard</div>
 
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<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 149005" data-quote="greenmanslk" data-source="post: 2811661" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811661" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811661">greenmanslk said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> If you have concerns about whether you have enough tine you haven’t planned properly and shouldn’t start the overtake<br /> <br /> Pulling out first allows you to complete the final observation checks such as identifying a previously unseen junction or driveway...or pot hole..or pedestrian...etc...<br /> <br /> At least that was what I was talk when doing my ROSPA in my biking days.<br /> <br /> <br /> But if your system works for you, fine, just nail the bastard </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>The planning starts from well back. Keeping well back before commencing the overtaking process affords a wider vision of what’s ahead than what can be seen when closer and on the wrong side of the road. Obviously final checks are still necessary when on that wrong side, even if already up to the necessary speed. There’s never any shame in bottling out.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 15887" data-quote="st13phil" data-source="post: 2811660" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811660" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811660">st13phil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> This is not related to the OP's very particular question, but I would make the observation that very few drivers seem to have any idea whatsoever about how to overtake safely on a single carriageway road.<br /> <br /> Instead, they seem to prefer to tailgate the slower moving vehicle, thus preventing anyone who does have the necessary skill and judgement from making their way up the queue unless there's sufficient room (which there normally isn't) for a block overtake. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Welcome to my world!<br /> How to learn overtaking though (other than be the offspring of an on-the-road sales rep?)</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 33841" data-quote="Bellow" data-source="post: 2811672" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811672" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811672">Bellow said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> How to learn overtaking though (other than be the offspring of an on-the-road sales rep?) </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Spend the money on some advanced driving tuition instead of a remap or a bit of carbon fibre bling? Just a thought... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 15887" data-quote="st13phil" data-source="post: 2811718" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811718" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811718">st13phil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Spend the money on some advanced driving tuition instead of a remap or a bit of carbon fibre bling? Just a thought... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> BLASPHEMY!!!!!</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">This is all very interesting although it seems to slightly of become a debate about the philosophical argument of should you overtake a car going 40 at all.<br /> <br /> What I will say in regard to this is that I do acknowledge this attitude unfortunately has gained more traction latterly (see what i did there <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />).Although the reasons for this change in mindset do seem varied, from people seeing an overtaking car as somehow a “queue jumper” to some motorists that view any form of overtaking as immediately reckless or dangerous no matter the circumstance. One person on here suggesting they would be quite happy to sit at 40 and the amount of occasions on the road you come across a tight group of cars all doing 40 with no one prepared to overtake even in good weather with good sight lines being testament to this. It doesn’t matter how much power you’ve got if your number 4 in the train chances are your not going to get past unless there is a half decent straight with no oncoming traffic. Also let’s be honest as someone already has said people don’t buy an amg to do 40 everywhere.<br /> <br /> So if an opportunity for a safe and legal overtake is possible. The reason for the question is that I feel it is a safer and better practice to set the car up before committing to overtake by pre selecting the required gear, as you would in a full manual. Automatics are wonderful things but their limitation is they operate in the present and as such they can not anticipate the road conditions ahead, other traffic or what you are about to ask of the car only react to it.<br /> <br /> With the power of an amg car or any high performance car for that matter the gear selection is not as clear cut as something that only gives you one choice for effective acceleration at any given speed.<br /> <br /> Yes i also accept the throttle is not an on off switch and a certain amount of modulation is required and is part of the skill of driving. Again this is more important in an amg compared to a lower powered cars where you can get away with dropping it down the box and flooring it. With 500bhp this kind of approach can result in traction issues so gear selection and rpm are an an even more important factor to consider.<br /> <br /> That being said some gears at certain speeds also just ‘feel’ better and it was this that I was seeking an answer to in relation to my op with the 40mph overtake case in point.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">I would have thought, not having direct experience of the car, that an E63 would have ample torque in any gear to complete a 40mph overtake without worrying about the need to change down.<br /> <br /> What is the 40-50 or 40-60 time for an E63?? Sub 3 seconds from thought to completion?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> How many here have to brake after completing an overtake...</div>
 
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<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 15887" data-quote="st13phil" data-source="post: 2811660" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811660" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811660">st13phil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> This is not related to the OP's very particular question, but I would make the observation that very few drivers seem to have any idea whatsoever about how to overtake safely on a single carriageway road.<br /> <br /> Instead, they seem to prefer to tailgate the slower moving vehicle, thus preventing anyone who does have the necessary skill and judgement from making their way up the queue unless there's sufficient room (which there normally isn't) for a block overtake. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> The bane of my life.....</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 65149" data-quote="knighterrant" data-source="post: 2811636" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811636" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811636">knighterrant said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I can’t fully agree with that. You correctly state the overtaking process starting with visibility (observation) and then indication. But it’s better to have started the acceleration stage whilst still well back from the vehicle being overtaken. In this way you should be up to a safe overtaking speed BEFORE pulling out to overtake, resulting in less time being spent on the wrong side of the road. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> In an ideal world, the above is probably valid. With the traffic we have today, we don't have the luxury of long distances to perform a very safe overtake. I've done more driver training that I can remember (and recently did a 2 day (High Performance Driving) session at Millbrook Proving Grounds &amp; on the road) and generally the advice is to have the car balanced and straight before accelerating for a quick overtake.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 149005" data-quote="greenmanslk" data-source="post: 2811806" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811806" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811806">greenmanslk said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I would have thought, not having direct experience of the car, that an E63 would have ample torque in any gear to complete a 40mph overtake without worrying about the need to change down.<br /> <br /> What is the 40-50 or 40-60 time for an E63?? Sub 3 seconds from thought to completion?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> How many here have to brake after completing an overtake... </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Have to agree - with the torque he has..............</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">So, no one considering my flappy paddle solution then....</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 123737" data-quote="ToeKnee" data-source="post: 2811835" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811835" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811835">ToeKnee said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> So, no one considering my flappy paddle solution then.... </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Wouldn't holding the flappy paddle (L) simply pull it to the lowest acceptable gear for the current accelerator position? I use my paddles most of the time when driving in the more gentlemanly modes (C &amp; CV) . It also depends on the mode I'm using e.g. S+ is very responsive and will drop a gear at the slightest provocation .......but then the engine is generally revving higher and rarely goes past 5th or 6th....I think there are too many variables to give the OP a clear answer.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">In any mode other than M using the paddles just restricts the gear range, unless one holds the paddle to force the box to drop to the gear that gives the greatest acceleration from the current speed. Can induce wheel spin in anything other than perfect conditions ...</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Airwolf is right that it's better to be in control of the gears and you'd know this if you'd driven an M156. It's still NA so does its best work over 3krpm but the gearbox is often too slow or too sharp in the various automatic modes.<br /> <br /> You can learn each mode and how it responds to different levels of throttle input but that's somewhat of a moving target as the adaptions alter the thresholds depending on how you've been driving. For example, if you've been stuck in traffic dawdling for ages it won't kickdown as early as if you've been driving harder. Having the predictability of manual gears helps keep the power under control.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 12813" data-quote="whitenemesis" data-source="post: 2811862" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811862" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811862">whitenemesis said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> In any mode other than M using the paddles just restricts the gear range, unless one holds the paddle to force the box to drop to the gear that gives the greatest acceleration from the current speed. Can induce wheel spin in anything other than perfect conditions ... </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Isn't that what I said though, hold the paddle to give the greatest acceleration then change back up, which is what the op wanted?</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper">Holding down might put you in 2nd with little revs left to play with so still better to control it manually.</div>
 
<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 149252" data-quote="StringfellowHawke" data-source="post: 2811770" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=2811770" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-2811770">StringfellowHawke said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> the amount of occasions on the road you come across a tight group of cars all doing 40 with no one prepared to overtake even in good weather with good sight lines being testament to this. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Typically though, one of those who have just been happy to mindlessly follow the group will then decide they want to pull out as soon as they see you starting to overtake them!</div>
 
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