Hillman Imps / Our other cars

[D-18]

My neighbour, who owns a restores many wonderful cars, runs an original concourse Triumph Stag and never once has it overheated or boiled up. He gets really annoyed when you say "they had overheating issues, didn't they?" His view is that the owners had overheating problems as they never maintained them properly, knowing that the cooling was always a potential issue!! I like that view point. What he means is that if you keep it clean and use good fluids, there is no reason to have cooling issues - and he doesn't have issues.

I've toyed with the idea of a Stag for a while. They do have their foibles, like any car of that era, but much of their reputation for unreliability was down to poor or badly misunderstood maintenance requirements. The engine (for its day) was quite sophisticated and makes a lovely V8 noise for such a small capacity lump.

As mentioned earlier, the BMC 11 / 1300 series claim to fame was that ALL body panels were carried as replacement parts. The Stag also has its own unique attribute. It was the only car to be specifically excluded from aftermarket warranties - they really were that bad at one point!

 

[st13phil]

I've toyed with the idea of a Stag for a while. They do have their foibles, like any car of that era, but much of their reputation for unreliability was down to poor or badly misunderstood maintenance requirements.

While poor maintenance practices had their part to play, the biggest problem was the absolutely appalling build quality control. Many of the overheating problems were directly attributable to failure to completely clean the water passages in the block and cylinder heads after machining in the factory. When you're dealt a sh!t hand to start with, it's difficult to turn that into a winner.

Having said all that, a well-fettled Stag is a lovely car.

 

[D-18]

Yep Phil, you're right. Build quality was absolutely shocking. I've heard stories of loads of casting sand being left in the blocks and heads - no wonder the damn things had issues when they were new.

Good usable (if rather unoriginal) Stags now often have Jaguar (4 speed) auto boxes, BMW 3 series rear ends, Nissan drive shafts........etc.

 

[BTB 500]

The Stag also has its own unique attribute. It was the only car to be specifically excluded from aftermarket warranties - they really were that bad at one point!

Indeed - this was the warranty on my Granada 3.0 Ghia ...

 

[grober]

The later cars had the pivot points for the front suspension adjusted to sort the camber out, in the early days folks sorted things with bags of sand etc.



And variants used in other cars too of a more sporting heritage.

Have a look at The Lost Lotus program on Channel 4.
Just before 30 minutes our Mildred makes an entrance and then a fire engine and Ant explains how the engine came about.

Still need to put one on Philip's chin for his derogatory remarks to our Hillman Imp. )

The Lost Lotus: Restoring a Race Car - On Demand - All 4

 

[st13phil]

Good usable (if rather unoriginal) Stags now often have Jaguar (4 speed) auto boxes, BMW 3 series rear ends, Nissan drive shafts........etc.

When they were a current model there was a healthy trade in replacing blown up original engines with the Ford Essex V6. Such a shame for what could have been a fantastic car

 

[st13phil]

While we're on the subject of Stags...

Back in the early 1980's a friend of mine had very nice white 1973-registered, but 1974-spec Stag. His brother had a less good 1974-registered, but 1973-spec car - in exactly the same colour. I think you may see where this is going...

Needless to say they ended up with a very nice 1974-spec car that was registered in 1974, and a 1973 car register in 1973 that went to the auction

 

[grober]

Coventry Climax - The Imp Site
The first competition car to use the FWA [ feather weight A ]Coventry Climax engine The KIEFT .
Example shown was MG 1100 XPAG engined- I imagine the body/chassis was the same??

 

[brucemillar]

For me the Stag is another car that can ooze character (and anti-freeze). My neighbours is a very bright red/orange and is as original as the day it left the factory, although there may be elements of 'triggers broom' in there. He drives it in the summer (not the wet) and it sounds devine. He 'professionally' details engines for clients. This usually involves the engine being removed and stripped of all ancillaries then restored to the "factory" colour scheme, with everything else polished. Bits that you would imagine, you could not polish, get polished. Among his own fleet he keeps a Silver Daimler V12 that has stupendously low miles and lived it's life in the Channel Islands. At original purchase had a custom made black interior fitted, that included the head lining, door cards, carpets and dashboard. He also owns a beautiful 1930's Cadillac with wooden spoke'd wheels. This can also be seen regularly on the road's around North Kent.

He (like us all) is a true enthusiast and has given me many pointers as I struggled with my 124 to find original paint etc. It was his contact that found me the original and perfect 'lower half' Gallinit Grau paint code that evaded me for so long. One phone call and the chap had it to hand - brilliant. This after months of cals and emails to Mercedes Germany and trawling the web.

 

[brucemillar]

For me the Stag is another car that can ooze character (and anti-freeze). My neighbours is a very bright red/orange and is as original as the day it left the factory, although there may be elements of 'triggers broom' in there. He drives it in the summer (not the wet) and it sounds devine. He 'professionally' details engines for clients. This usually involves he engine being removed and stripped of all ancillaries then restored to their "factory" colour scheme with everything else polished. Bits that you would imagine, you could not polish, get polished. Among his own fleet he keeps a Silver Daimler V12 that has stupendously low miles and lived it's life in the Channel Islands. At original purchase had a custom made black interior fitted, that included the head lining, door cards, carpets and dashboard. He also owns a beautiful 1920's Cadillac with wooden spoke'd wheels. This can also be seen regularly on the road's around North Kent.

He (like us all) is a true enthusiast and has given me many pointers as I struggled with my 124 to find original paint etc. It was his contact that found me the original and perfect 'lower half' Gallinit Grau paint code that evaded me for so long. One phone call and the chap had it to hand - brilliant. This after months of cals and emails to Mercedes Germany and trawling the web.

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[Scott_F]

When they were a current model there was a healthy trade in replacing blown up original engines with the Ford Essex V6. Such a shame for what could have been a fantastic car

The favourite replacement for the Stag's original 3.0 V8 has always been the Rover 3.5 V8.

The latter doesn't come without problems of its own but is a far more robust unit.

 

[Gbrowncls55]

Had a sunbeam imp Sport when I was 18 after hitching a ride in a ,then rare (1969), 911. Closest I could get to that intoxicating rear engine sound on my budget at the time. Made up for it later in life. Great little engine that coventry climax based unit. Oh yes, and Bill McGovern fighting the minis at Brands......memories, memories.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Had Boris over at Tartan Tarmac this morning, lots of interest in him and questions.

I even noticed someone looking in his window that I noticed was an old friend I've not seen since his wedding maybe 15 years ago.

It is amazing how cars can bring all sorts of people together from all different backgrounds and walks of life.

 

[st13phil]

The favourite replacement for the Stag's original 3.0 V8 has always been the Rover 3.5 V8.

I'm honestly not sure of the relevant proportions of Stags converted to the Rover/Buick V8 vs those fitted with the Ford V6, but there were quite a few firms who specialised in the Ford V6 conversion such as Hurley Motor Engineering in Birmingham and Specialised Engines in Essex.

Edit to add: The main reason the Ford V6 was so popular was that it was almost identical in weight to the Triumph V8 which meant no handling issues, and it could be fitted without putting a "power bulge" in the bonnet. The Rover/Buick V8 on the other hand was a bit shy of 200lbs heavier than the Triumph unit, and in carburetted form needed a bulge in the Stag's bonnet to accommodate it. By contemporary accounts the Ford engine was a much easier and more satisfactory conversion.

 

[alabbasi]

I do have a real soft spot for stags and always keep an eye out in case one pops up in the DFW area. Many here are conversions which I'm not fond of. I had a Jaguar XJ5.3C with a small block chevy in it and it felt a little off, even though it started every day. I promptly sold it when I found a V12 engine car which I still own and barely runs. The ford, rover , chevy engines are OHV and therefore should sit lower when compared to the stag V8, unless they're mounting it high to clear the oil pan.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

George passed his MOT yesterday.

Thought we would get this done and give him a shake down before final panel finishing and painting.

You do get some funny looks driving around in a car with only a front window.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Poor old George, the little Imp passed his MOT with flying colours and looked underneath and inside like it had just come out of the factory.

This was the engine bay with the engine cover removed.


And underneath



Went to a local spray shop with very specific instructions about overspray, masking, preparation etc.
They were even told we would send our guys to do all this if they were stuck for time or in doubt.

Of course they didn't listen and sprayed primer and green paint all over the engine bay, suspension, rubber hoses, wiring loom etc.


You can see the paint on the tyres and wheels so just imagine the rest of the car!

Well it's now back in bits, engine out, looms unwound ready to rewind etc.
Will need some new rubber and hoses etc. as some of the stuff just wont clean up!

 

[brucemillar]

Poor old George, the little Imp passed his MOT with flying colours and looked underneath and inside like it had just come out of the factory.

This was the engine bay with the engine cover removed.
View attachment 74025

And underneath
View attachment 74027


Went to a local spray shop with very specific instructions about overspray, masking, preparation etc.
They were even told we would send our guys to do all this if they were stuck for time or in doubt.

Of course they didn't listen and sprayed primer and green paint all over the engine bay, suspension, rubber hoses, wiring loom etc.
View attachment 74029

You can see the paint on the tyres and wheels so just imagine the rest of the car!

Well it's now back in bits, engine out, looms unwound ready to rewind etc.
Will need some new rubber and hoses etc. as some of the stuff just wont clean up!

What is the matter with these people that they cannot figure out the simplest of spray painting mistakes?

I feel your pain.

Did you have a friendly and polite chat with them using words like: golly gosh and oh my goodness me?


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[pmcgsmurf]

What is the matter with these people that they cannot figure out the simplest of spray painting mistakes?

It's not hurry up and wait, it's hurry up and make an ass of it.
We painted a bit on the E55, media cabinet, 1 hour, cleaning, 15 minutes, masking, 30 minutes, paint 2 minutes.

I feel your pain.
Did you have a friendly and polite chat with them using words like: golly gosh and oh my goodness me?

You guessed it Thing is it's a waste of time as they just don't get it.
They can't understand that they have given the car back with more faults than they got it with.
We had to clear out their lunch rubbish from within the car too as they had clearly used the inside like a trash can.

 

[brucemillar]

It's not hurry up and wait, it's hurry up and make an ass of it.
We painted a bit on the E55, media cabinet, 1 hour, cleaning, 15 minutes, masking, 30 minutes, paint 2 minutes.



You guessed it Thing is it's a waste of time as they just don't get it.
They can't understand that they have given the car back with more faults than they got it with.
We had to clear out their lunch rubbish from within the car too as they had clearly used the inside like a trash can.

This is very upsetting and such a stupid needless schoolboy error.

I really do feel your pain here as I love these cars and you posts and enthusiasm for them.

I found a fabulous paint guy for my 124 Wagon restoration and now give him everything with no words needed. On my C55 Wagon he actually insisted on having it back to repaint a panel that I was happy with. He said “ it’s not right and it has my name on it so it has to come back”. He also collected and delivered the car back to me leaving me his own car as a loaner (not required).

It’s great when you get a guy/business like this.

I do hope you get it all sorted without too much stripping down again.

Bruce


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