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How bad is TMC

prprandall51

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I have been forming an opinion of just how bad TMC is on Comand but I have kept it to myself and not voiced it here because of a lack of real hard evidence.

Well I got it this morning.

I drive along the A3 from Haslemere to Guildford. This morning, just as I joined the tail-end of what turned out to be a 6 mile queue of traffic (very slow moving) Comand indicated red cars for the next three miles ahead. Fair enough, perhaps it had only just acquired the data from the TMC signal.

So, I crawled along. And then the incident was cleared from the screen and the road was shown to be clear. Then a few minutes later, it showed it to be clear where I was (it wasn't clear at all) but jammed up (red cars) in the next "segment" along, which hadn't been flagged as blocked at all until then. A few minutes later, that then went clear, too, so that the whole area was, according to TMC, clear of traffic problems. Then the segment behind me went red, and then a few minutes later, the segment I was in went red, and then clear, and then the segment ....

Well, you get the idea. Basically, it looked as if Comand couldn't make up its mind. This is not reliable, consistent, accurate data.

I would put money on this being a result of using "floating car" data, whereby the data provider uses a car with a transmitter onboard to monitor the progress of that car through the hold-up. I think what I was seeing was the monitored car being held up in successive road segments. When reported incidents just disappear from screen, that is when the monitored car has pulled off the main road to seek an alternative route (as many people were doing this morning). The re-appearance of the red cars is evidence (I believe) of another monitored car entering the conjestion area.

But overall, it just sucks, for want of a more eloquent expression.

Did anyone else drive through this hold-up this morning and experience more accurate depiction of the hold up on their Comand system? Has anyone else had any similar experiences to mine?

When I have used TMC abroad (in Germany and Belgium) it was brilliant (on the same Comand in the same car) so it is not Comand per se. It is just the useless data feed it is being supplied with in this country (in my opinion).

Has anyone seen the breakdown truck symbol in this country? I saw it used in Germany to indicate the progress of clearing up the incident. I haven't seen it used here.

Philip
 
You just speak what I think for some years now of living on this 3rd world Island... Technology we used to have abroad isn't here or old... And then all those holiday Brits complaining about whats wrong when abroad and telling every one it's so much better at home. Well I know better since I lived and worked in almost whole Europe, well only 7 of them...

About that TMC, it's up to the info what those radio stations are sending...

bt
 
prprandall51 said:
I would put money on this being a result of using "floating car" data, whereby the data provider uses a car with a transmitter onboard to monitor the progress of that car through the hold-up. I think what I was seeing was the monitored car being held up in successive road segments. When reported incidents just disappear from screen, that is when the monitored car has pulled off the main road to seek an alternative route (as many people were doing this morning). The re-appearance of the red cars is evidence (I believe) of another monitored car entering the conjestion area.
Unless you know differently, I don't believe TMC works like that. See:
http://www.tmcforum.com/en/about_tmc/what_is_tmc/what_is_tmc.htm

The idea of a 'monitoring car' is, I think, a distant dream where cars would talk to each other and relay information on delays.

Mercedes use ITIS http://www.itisholdings.com/itmc.asp so I guess you could complain to them that their data is crap?
 
Rory said:
Unless you know differently, I don't believe TMC works like that. See:
http://www.tmcforum.com/en/about_tmc/what_is_tmc/what_is_tmc.htm
Interesting!
In the user's language

Thanks to TMC receiver technology, users can receive traffic information in their own language. The TMC unit, typically an in-car navigation system, decodes the received traffic information and presents it to the user. Whichever country the user is driving in, he or she can understand the local traffic situation immediately.
According to my comand unit there was "aqualplaning" on the M6 last night! :rolleyes: Does not fill me with confidence!

EDIT: additionally:
Data related to traffic flows, incidents, weather etc. are gathered from traffic monitoring systems, emergency services, motorists' calls etc., and are collated at a central traffic information centre. They are then passed to the TMC traffic information service provider, who generates TMC messages according to the ALERT-C coding protocol.
We're not actually told where the data really comes from are we? ;)
 
Rory said:
Unless you know differently, I don't believe TMC works like that. See:
http://www.tmcforum.com/en/about_tmc/what_is_tmc/what_is_tmc.htm
The idea of a 'monitoring car' is, I think, a distant dream where cars would talk to each other and relay information on delays.

Mercedes use ITIS http://www.itisholdings.com/itmc.asp so I guess you could complain to them that their data is crap?

Hi Rory, I do know differently. Far from being a dream, it is exactly how ITIS collect their data. Try this page of their website:
http://www.itisholdings.com/whatfvd.asp

There are better technologies out there for TMC data provision. In my post I am expressing surprise at how poor the TMC service is.

I am provided with the service by MB, not ITIS, and I am thinking of complaining about it. I just thought I would collect some opinions on the subject from fellow forum members to see if my impression of poor quality is a genrally held belief.

Philip
 
Shude said:
EDIT: additionally:

We're not actually told where the data really comes from are we? ;)
Do you mean the original source?

In the UK it's delivered by either ITIS or TrafficMaster. As a source, TrafficMaster use those blue sensors that you see everywhere, which ought to be a reliable method.

Maybe ITIS just guess?
 
prprandall51 said:
Hi Rory, I do know differently. Far from being a dream, it is exactly how ITIS collect their data. Try this page of their website:
http://www.itisholdings.com/whatfvd.asp
Fairy Nuff - I didn't know about that.

Based on your experience, it doesn't work very well. I wonder if it thinks there's a traffic jam every time an AA van stops somewhere!!
 
Rory said:
Do you mean the original source?

...As a source, TrafficMaster use those blue sensors that you see everywhere, which ought to be a reliable method.

Maybe ITIS just guess?

Hi Rory, I think you are right on both points!
 
Rory said:
Fairy Nuff - I didn't know about that.

Based on your experience, it doesn't work very well. I wonder if it thinks there's a traffic jam every time an AA van stops somewhere!!

And, I suspect, you are right on that one, too.
 
Hi Philip,
I respect your knowledge on the nitty gritties of hte different systems, so from what you are suggesting is this a problem with TMC?
Is it outdated?
Can it be cheaply improved?
Is it better than nothing?

Regards,
John the curious
 
I had a good one from Nav/TMC dyanamic routing yesterday morning:

Queuing on the end of the M4, Nav came to life with a new route for me which consisted of leaving at the next exit and then re joining the M4 (i.e. use the roundabout rather than straight on.....).

Overall though it has saved me more often than its got it wrong so far.
 
glojo said:
Hi Philip,
I respect your knowledge on the nitty gritties of hte different systems, so from what you are suggesting is this a problem with TMC?
Is it outdated?
Can it be cheaply improved?
Is it better than nothing?

Regards,
John the curious

Hmm, it is easy for me to complain but difficult to suggest a solution!

Firstly, from my experience, there is no prolem with TMC as a concept or in reality. It is working very well throughout the world. It worked perfectly for me in Germany in my 211. Unfortunately, I believe the problem is the specific service provided for MB owners here in the UK.

Can the service be improved? Not easily or cheaply. I have discussed the shortcomings of Floating Car Data systems on another thread, it looks to me like they need a lot more monitored vehicles out there to improve it that way. There are induction loops in the roadway of main carriageways that collect vehicle data - but I don't know if this gets fed into the ITIS system or not.

Is it better than nothing? Well, undeniably I would say yes. But to be frank, I think it is marginal unless you are driving a main arterial route such as the M25 or the M6. Certainly, there is often slow moving traffic on the A3 and it does not get reported (but then, it has to be very slow to justify selecting an alternative route, anyway).

But the main issue comes when there is a new DVD out. Would I pay for an updated DVD at £300-odd pounds (not sure of exact price)? Based on the performance I have seen so far, I would say definitely not. I would want a non-TMC disc.

Philip
 

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