Injector cleaner

[JoeZ]

Dear everyone

I have got a 2018 Mercedes e Class( w213) under 18000miles , someone recommended Liqui Moly Purge to me, but I called Mercedes for advise and they told me that I shouldn’t use it, it might damage the engine on long run.

Could I get some advice from you guys please, should I use it or not? what’s your experience or opinion on this.

Many thanks.

Joe

 

[John]

I'd be very surprised if a car of that age and mileage needs injector cleaner - 10k PA mileage is healthy for a car assuming it does less longer journeys than lots of very short journeys whilst cold?

I personally wouldn't use it unless there was evidence it was needed.

 

[markjay]

Just use premium fuels - Shell V-Power, BP Ultimate, etc - they alreasy have the detergents included in the fuel and will keep the injectors clean.

 

[JoeZ]

I'd be very surprised if a car of that age and mileage needs injector cleaner - 10k PA mileage is healthy for a car assuming it does less longer journeys than lots of very short journeys whilst cold?

I personally wouldn't use it unless there was evidence it was needed.

Thanks very much.
My friend just sent me a picture, he got BMW 525D F10 estate, after he used Liqui Moly, MPG increased dramatically

 

[JoeZ]

Just use premium fuels - Shell V-Power, BP Ultimate, etc - they alreasy have the detergents included in the fuel and will keep the injectors clean.

Thank you.
Friend of mine working for some sort of oil labs, he mentioned that BP Ultimate is the worst, Shell V-power is pretty decent fuel.

 

[slade1]

Never had a problem with fuel injectors and usually use supermarket petrol. Have been told injector 'cleaners' is mostly kerosene.

 

[markjay]

Never had a problem with fuel injectors and usually use supermarket petrol. Have been told injector 'cleaners' is mostly kerosene.

The issue isn't with 'supermarket fuels, it's simply with the additive pack. You can either use the minimum-standard fuel (of any fuel brand) and occassionally add fuel system cleaner, or you can use premium fuels that already have the detergents added to it.

Your car won't breake down as such if you never use fuel system cleaner (injectors and valves), but if you start using fuel systems ckeaner regularly you will likely see an improvement in fuel consumption and possibly also smoother engine running (depending on how bad the situation is now).

 

[Gazwould]

Naaa , Naphtha .

 

[Gazwould]

Never had a problem with fuel injectors and usually use supermarket petrol. Have been told injector 'cleaners' is mostly kerosene.

Naaa , Naphtha .

 

[John]

Thanks very much.
My friend just sent me a picture, he got BMW 525D F10 estate, after he used Liqui Moly, MPG increased dramatically
View attachment 98172

I've no doubt it is a genuine claim and that may be the case but I always take claims like that with a pinch of salt - however well-intentioned!

It's not very scientific unless he matched weather conditions / outside temperature i.e. time of year, fuel, tyre pressures, driving style (exactly including roads / traffic encountered) before and after he used it for some considerable miles.

Cars do much worse MPG in the Winter so if he started using the cleaner as the weather changed, you would get an improvement in MPG anyway.

Also, I'd lop off 10 > 20% from that claimed mileage as most cars onboard computers are ambitious (for obvious reasons!).

You would have to do brimming-tank to brimming-tank calculations over a period of time to get the true MPG and work from there.

You'd also have to compare the cost of the cleaner against the true gain in MPG aside from MB's warning (which may just be them covering their assess and not wanting any warranty claims but I would be surprised if an injector-cleaner could cause issues but no one can guarantee it wouldn't for sure).

What does your car claim to do in terms of MPG?

You can get the best MPG without spending money by carrying less unnecessary stuff in your car, ensuring the tyres are always at the optimum pressure, thinking ahead / predicting the road ahead and use the accelerator and brakes sparingly.

 

[markjay]

The improvement in mpg after using fuel systen cleaner isn't a goal per-se, instead it serves to demonstrate the reduction in efficiency and engine performance over time as result of residue forming on the injectors and on the valves. No one wants to run an engine which isn't at top efficiency, even if they don't care about mpg. The issue with dirty engines is that the reduction in performance is not sudden and therefore not noticeable, the deterioration is very gradual and this is why the improved mpg after a badly gunked engine is cleaned, can be very noticeable.

 

[JoeZ]

I've no doubt it is a genuine claim and that may be the case but I always take claims like that with a pinch of salt - however well-intentioned!

It's not very scientific unless he matched weather conditions / outside temperature i.e. time of year, fuel, tyre pressures, driving style (exactly including roads / traffic encountered) before and after he used it for some considerable miles.

Cars do much worse MPG in the Winter so if he started using the cleaner as the weather changed, you would get an improvement in MPG anyway.

Also, I'd lop off 10 > 20% from that claimed mileage as most cars onboard computers are ambitious (for obvious reasons!).

You would have to do brimming-tank to brimming-tank calculations over a period of time to get the true MPG and work from there.

You'd also have to compare the cost of the cleaner against the true gain in MPG aside from MB's warning (which may just be them covering their assess and not wanting any warranty claims but I would be surprised if an injector-cleaner could cause issues but no one can guarantee it wouldn't for sure).

What does your car claim to do in terms of MPG?

You can get the best MPG without spending money by carrying less unnecessary stuff in your car, ensuring the tyres are always at the optimum pressure, thinking ahead / predicting the road ahead and use the accelerator and brakes sparingly.

Hi John

Thanks very much for made everything so clear, I totally agreed with what you said. I think I will leave it for now.

He took that picture yesterday and he just had his service done as well.

I have got a E220D, around 43mpg mixed with city and A road, not too sure if that good or not, wish my car can go up to 60mpg.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

A lighter right foot and it might well get nearer that figure.

 

[JoeZ]

A lighter right foot and it might well get nearer that figure.

Hahahaha, I am not fast driver at all, especially in London, most of the time I sat in the traffic.

 

[GeeJayW]

All UK automotive fuels have some detergency included in their additive package that provides some degree of 'keep-clean' functionality, and in general most are OK. All must at least meet the specifications in EN228 (petrol) or EN590 (diesel).

Premium brands such as Shell, BP, Esso and so on, use more advanced additive chemistries that they have often developed in conjunction with major chemical companies. These are not typically included with fuel products destined for retail outlets of other companies. Having unique additive technology is one of the main differentiators for the major oil companies.

Shell Fuelsave diesel and petrol for example have very good keep-clean performance. So used from new the relevant parts of the engine will stay quite clean.

Shell V-Power and similar fuels have either different additive technologies or more additive(s) than the main-grade offering so to provide enhanced keep-clean and indeed clean-up properties. In other words, existing deposits will be removed over time/distance by using these fuels.

V-Power petrol is also higher octane than regular main-grade petrol. Premium higher octane fuels from other manufacturers are available of course...

So to answer your question, running 1000-2000 miles on a premium fuel like Shell V-Power will pretty much remove deposits from the injectors. With port-injected petrol engines, the intake valves will also be cleaned up. Thereafter running on a decent main grade fuel will keep things clean.

 

[John]

43mpg (even if that is on the computer and is perhaps a little lower) is admirable for a mix of "real-world" urban and combined driving.

At the end of the day, you are shifting around a big heavy metal box from a standstill constantly - which uses a lot of fuel.

You tend to see the best figures on the motorway at sensible speeds with little interruption to your speed as the car has to do very little work (so using less fuel).

I get 24mpg > 26mpg on mostly A roads from a 4.7 V8 twin turbo for my previous daily commute.

If I got for a long drive (say 5 hours) it ends up around 36mpg I think at best.

As others have posted - it's about not letting the performance efficiency of your engine deteriorating.

So run some premium fuel through it now and again. You won't notice any difference and it will cost a little more but you shouldn't see a drop in MPG from things started to get clogged up.

 

[GeeJayW]

I should have also included this; putting too much additive in the fuel can be quite detrimental. So if you do decide to put some third party products in, be very careful on the dose. It's actually better to add nothing more to the fuel than it is to put too much additional additive in.

 

[JoeZ]

43mpg (even if that is on the computer and is perhaps a little lower) is admirable for a mix of "real-world" urban and combined driving.

At the end of the day, you are shifting around a big heavy metal box from a standstill constantly - which uses a lot of fuel.

You tend to see the best figures on the motorway at sensible speeds with little interruption to your speed as the car has to do very little work (so using less fuel).

I get 24mpg > 26mpg on mostly A roads from a 4.7 V8 twin turbo for my previous daily commute.

If I got for a long drive (say 5 hours) it ends up around 36mpg I think at best.

As others have posted - it's about not letting the performance efficiency of your engine deteriorating.

So run some premium fuel through it now and again. You won't notice any difference and it will cost a little more but you shouldn't see a drop in MPG from things started to get clogged up.

Thanks a lot and I really appreciate it.

 

[JoeZ]

All UK automotive fuels have some detergency included in their additive package that provi

All UK automotive fuels have some detergency included in their additive package that provides some degree of 'keep-clean' functionality, and in general most are OK. All must at least meet the specifications in EN228 (petrol) or EN590 (diesel).

Premium brands such as Shell, BP, Esso and so on, use more advanced additive chemistries that they have often developed in conjunction with major chemical companies. These are not typically included with fuel products destined for retail outlets of other companies. Having unique additive technology is one of the main differentiators for the major oil companies.

Shell Fuelsave diesel and petrol for example have very good keep-clean performance. So used from new the relevant parts of the engine will stay quite clean.

Shell V-Power and similar fuels have either different additive technologies or more additive(s) than the main-grade offering so to provide enhanced keep-clean and indeed clean-up properties. In other words, existing deposits will be removed over time/distance by using these fuels.

V-Power petrol is also higher octane than regular main-grade petrol. Premium higher octane fuels from other manufacturers are available of course...

So to answer your question, running 1000-2000 miles on a premium fuel like Shell V-Power will pretty much remove deposits from the injectors. With port-injected petrol engines, the intake valves will also be cleaned up. Thereafter running on a decent main grade fuel will keep things clean.

thanks very much, so much
des some degree of 'keep-clean' functionality, and in general most are OK. All must at least meet the specifications in EN228 (petrol) or EN590 (diesel).

Premium brands such as Shell, BP, Esso and so on, use more advanced additive chemistries that they have often developed in conjunction with major chemical companies. These are not typically included with fuel products destined for retail outlets of other companies. Having unique additive technology is one of the main differentiators for the major oil companies.

Shell Fuelsave diesel and petrol for example have very good keep-clean performance. So used from new the relevant parts of the engine will stay quite clean.

Shell V-Power and similar fuels have either different additive technologies or more additive(s) than the main-grade offering so to provide enhanced keep-clean and indeed clean-up properties. In other words, existing deposits will be removed over time/distance by using these fuels.

V-Power petrol is also higher octane than regular main-grade petrol. Premium higher octane fuels from other manufacturers are available of course...

So to answer your question, running 1000-2000 miles on a premium fuel like Shell V-Power will pretty much remove deposits from the injectors. With port-injected petrol engines, the intake valves will also be cleaned up. Thereafter running on a decent main grade fuel will keep things clean.

All UK automotive fuels have some detergency included in their additive package that provides some degree of 'keep-clean' functionality, and in general most are OK. All must at least meet the specifications in EN228 (petrol) or EN590 (diesel).

Premium brands such as Shell, BP, Esso and so on, use more advanced additive chemistries that they have often developed in conjunction with major chemical companies. These are not typically included with fuel products destined for retail outlets of other companies. Having unique additive technology is one of the main differentiators for the major oil companies.

Shell Fuelsave diesel and petrol for example have very good keep-clean performance. So used from new the relevant parts of the engine will stay quite clean.

Shell V-Power and similar fuels have either different additive technologies or more additive(s) than the main-grade offering so to provide enhanced keep-clean and indeed clean-up properties. In other words, existing deposits will be removed over time/distance by using these fuels.

V-Power petrol is also higher octane than regular main-grade petrol. Premium higher octane fuels from other manufacturers are available of course...

So to answer your question, running 1000-2000 miles on a premium fuel like Shell V-Power will pretty much remove deposits from the injectors. With port-injected petrol engines, the intake valves will also be cleaned up. Thereafter running on a decent main grade fuel will keep things clean.

Thanks so much for the time and effort that you put in, all those information are priceless and really appreciate it.

 

[tonysmb]

The BMW appears to have covered 100,000 miles.

Another vote for two or three tanks of premium fuel rather than a separate additive. If yours is diesel, some (most?) of the premium diesels have higher cetane rating than the standard fuel.