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Leasing, PCP etc vs outright purchase

So to that end I've figured out if I pay a "deposit" that is equal to the purchase price less the balloon payment I end up with a nominal monthly payment that even if I allowed it to run 36 months would still be less than the contribution being offered.
You won't be able to pay a deposit of that kind of amount as there's an upper limit (I thought of doing the same to reduce the interest payments).
Similarly you can't increase a deposit and monthly payments to reduce the interest you're paying.

This site is handy for calculating monthly payments but ask the dealer what the max deposit allowed is
Car Finance PCP Calculator
 
Being an ex-company car person who now gets a monthly car allowance, PCP works well for me. I know what it's going to cost me over the term. If I like the car, I can keep it in 3 years time. If it's a lemon or I fancy something new, I can hand it back with someone else having taken the risk of depreciation which could tank in the interim. If the value is above then GMFV then my gain.

I've never understood people who go on about paying in cash and that they'd never take out finance. Personally I can do a lot more with £30k cash then have it depreciating on my drive way. I happily tell people I don't own the car - IMHO I don't need to own it. If they can't get their head around driving a car you don't own, then just think of it as a hire car for 3 years.

Someone smart once told me to finance depreciating assets and buy appreciating ones.
 
I don't think other leases are as cheap as NHS fleet tho ..but you will need to work for NHS ...yes it is good 45k car at £416 /month but the wait is not so much fun tho :(

Interesting...we could do this, but thought it expensive...must look again.
 
I've never understood people who go on about paying in cash and that they'd never take out finance. Personally I can do a lot more with £30k cash then have it depreciating on my drive way. I happily tell people I don't own the car - IMHO I don't need to own it. If they can't get their head around driving a car you don't own, then just think of it as a hire car for 3 years.

Someone smart once told me to finance depreciating assets and buy appreciating ones.

There is some sense in this.
For example if I'm returning 15% on investments it makes more sense to borrow at 4%. However, one thing to note is that investments can fluctuate on return (fixed/zero risk returns are likely to pay out far less than 15%) and borrowing is often fixed.
If you have "spare" money that is not working for you it's worth thinking about cash payment to avoid ongoing payments - especially (as mentioned earlier) if you are getting a significant discount. After crunching the numbers yesterday it appears it's the initial purchase discount that has made it more sensible for me to buy cash - with consideration that the money I'm using for the payment made not make enough to offset borrowing cost.

eg. Earlier someone mentioned a figure of £750/month for my car and spec. 4.5 years of paying this and I would've paid off the equivalent to my car. Obviously I will be tricking cash out rather than one upfront payment - but still with some number crunching this the figure is not a good deal for me and my circumstances.

However, leasing and PCP is definitely something I would consider in future - if the figures were right.
 
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There is some sense in this.
For example if I'm returning 15% on investments it makes more sense to borrow at 4%. However, one thing to note is that investments can fluctuate on return (fixed/zero risk returns are likely to pay out far less than 15%) and borrowing is often fixed.
If you have "spare" money that is not working for you it's worth thinking about cash payment to avoid ongoing payments - especially (as mentioned earlier) if you are getting a significant discount. After crunching the numbers yesterday it appears it's the initial purchase discount that has made it more sensible for me to buy cash - with consideration that the money I'm using for the payment made not make enough to offset borrowing cost.

eg. Earlier someone mentioned a figure of £750/month for my car and spec. 4.5 years of paying this and I would've paid off the equivalent to my car. Obviously I will be tricking cash out rather than one upfront payment - but still with some number crunching this the figure is not a good deal for me and my circumstances.

However, leasing and PCP is definitely something I would consider in future - if the figures were right.

This is exactly why Finance Managers in car dealerships should be working in a regulated environment, it reminds me a little of endowment mortgages in the 80s.
Now that cars can cost £100k and people are talking monthly payments of £750 this issue is a far more serious problem then ever.

I just cannot accept that a car salesman can be qualified to advise on investment returns against paying interest on having a new car on the drip.In fact I cannot think of anyone I would trust less than a car salesman when it comes to financial/investment advice, how many of them have a car on PCP/PCH/HP etc?
 
Tilly.

My Mrs is thinking of leasing a cheapo motor for a few years, through her work she has access to some privilege deal which means a Fiat 500 at £1500 down and £90 per month for 37 months. List price £10420 with £1750 discount.

How does this deal stack up?

It depends on the model and the terms of the deal but from what I can gather, through experience I would like to assume being a 37 month term rather than 36 suggests it's on a PCP basis so it sounds a fair deal if it's a reasonable spec and based on a decent annual mileage ie 10k p/a or more
 
Harvin, it yours with no lease inspection £££ scandal at the end to contend with, I hope you got a healthy discount though! I purchased outright too.

I still can't believe there are 2 petrol S212's in Hyacinth!

That's an old wives tale. Reputable lease funders are members of the BVRLA and have realistic fair wear and tear allowances:

Fair Wear and Tear guides | BVRLA
 
This is exactly why Finance Managers in car dealerships should be working in a regulated environment, it reminds me a little of endowment mortgages in the 80s.
Now that cars can cost £100k and people are talking monthly payments of £750 this issue is a far more serious problem then ever.

I just cannot accept that a car salesman can be qualified to advise on investment returns against paying interest on having a new car on the drip.In fact I cannot think of anyone I would trust less than a car salesman when it comes to financial/investment advice, how many of them have a car on PCP/PCH/HP etc?

Don't trust me then... car salesman, buy my cars on PCP (I don't lease because I change car too frequently). I have the cash available to pay the car off outright but it works harder for me on the stock market hence the finance. Am I an exception? lol :rolleyes:
 
Don't trust me then... car salesman, buy my cars on PCP (I don't lease because I change car too frequently). I have the cash available to pay the car off outright but it works harder for me on the stock market hence the finance. Am I an exception? lol :rolleyes:

I don't think that I am referring to you, as I understand it you are a car finance broker not a car salesman in a dealer.

However, if you give advice on car finance and stray into advising your clients about the merits of taking on a substantial credit agreement against the backdrop of keeping investments where they are then, yes, I do think that you should be thoroughly regulated in your role to improve standards across the industry.

My main concern though are showroom salespeople who will say anything to get their customer to buy the car on finance solely to earn more commission on the sale, these conditions cannot be expected to deliver a positive outcome.

In fact, the more I think about it the more the whole scenario stinks. Extra discount available only if you take our finance, eh?
Someone posted that they had been offered 9% finance which they talked down to 7%, what?
Individual salespeople making up interest rates to boost commission, great deal?

As I said earlier, we are no longer talking about cars costing a few thousand, lots of MB and BMW offerings are now sold for big money.

The industry is in need of an overhaul.
 
The industry is in need of an overhaul.

You don't see a huge number of complaints - and there are plenty of customers driving away in new metal at monthlies that are comfortable to them. The approved used market is being pumped with plenty of ex-lease cars.

What's not to like?

If people can't do their homework on something as fundamentally simple as car finance then that's not really the industry's problem IMO. Blame the education system instead.
 
You don't see a huge number of complaints - and there are plenty of customers driving away in new metal at monthlies that are comfortable to them. The approved used market is being pumped with plenty of ex-lease cars.

What's not to like?

If people can't do their homework on something as fundamentally simple as car finance then that's not really the industry's problem IMO. Blame the education system instead.

You make a good point around complaints, however, you also indicate the reason for this might be poor education around financial matters which is evident.

As it happens the industry is now regulated by the FCA as it recognises that it has grown quickly over recent years and that the old regime could not keep up.

Over time we will see the dodgy claims and discriminatory pricing tackled.
 
You make a good point around complaints, however, you also indicate the reason for this might be poor education around financial matters which is evident.

I also stated that car finance is simple.

Maybe we should have a test that people have to pass before they are allowed to purchase a car.

Incorporate it into the driving theory test.
 
Unless I am mistaken it you PCP a car then you have to find the deposit for the next car. If you buy it cash or in my case borrow just £3000 on HP to get all the discounts you will have a sizable deposit for the next car when you come to sell it.
 
Unless I am mistaken it you PCP a car then you have to find the deposit for the next car. If you buy it cash or in my case borrow just £3000 on HP to get all the discounts you will have a sizable deposit for the next car when you come to sell it.

Not strictly correct and this is the frustrating thing. It's retail awareness that is lacking. What I mean by this is if a car is £20k to buy and worth £10k when you come to sell it after x months, it makes no difference whatsoever to the used value of that car how it was funded. Whether on a HP/LP agreement, paid for cash or on a PCP, the car is still worth what the car is worth, endof story. If you owe more than the car is worth you're in negative equity. If it's worth the same you break even. If it's worth more than what you owe then you have money to come back. It's not rocket science but still people try to confuse matters.
 
I don't think that I am referring to you, as I understand it you are a car finance broker not a car salesman in a dealer.

However, if you give advice on car finance and stray into advising your clients about the merits of taking on a substantial credit agreement against the backdrop of keeping investments where they are then, yes, I do think that you should be thoroughly regulated in your role to improve standards across the industry.

My main concern though are showroom salespeople who will say anything to get their customer to buy the car on finance solely to earn more commission on the sale, these conditions cannot be expected to deliver a positive outcome.

In fact, the more I think about it the more the whole scenario stinks. Extra discount available only if you take our finance, eh?
Someone posted that they had been offered 9% finance which they talked down to 7%, what?
Individual salespeople making up interest rates to boost commission, great deal?

As I said earlier, we are no longer talking about cars costing a few thousand, lots of MB and BMW offerings are now sold for big money.

The industry is in need of an overhaul.

Haha I was only teasing. In terms of discounts etc, it depends on many many factors and not all are to try and fleece customers. Notice I say not all? LMAO what I mean by this is there's a few schools of thought. People do not in any way shape or form have a f*cking clue how interest rates work, they think they're savvy and they know nothing and THIS is why dealers do what they do. An APR can be manipulated VERY easily whereas a flat rate cannot. Here are some examples...

If a dealer makes £1000 profit on a car there are three ways he can do this

1. £1000 added to the price of the car = low interest rate because you're selling it out at base rental

2. £1000 added to finance and full discount given on the car = high interest rate because you're making your profit on the rate

3. a mixture of the 2 = reasonable rate for obvious reasons as above.

Here's another random piece of info... the higher a final payment is on an agreement, the lower an APR ;) Even though the flat rate does not change, interesting no?

Now... If they give you the maximum discount on the car and a high interest rate finance quote they risk the customer saying "I'll buy the car but arrange their own finance" - uh oh... no profit for mr dealer #screwed

If they give a little to no discount and then a "deposit contribution" it's their way of getting you to pay more for the car while sugar coating it and and tempting you into taking their finance because it gives the impression you're receiving a better deal.

Another one is 0% APR "representative". Representative being the key word. Basically they calculate the cost of borrowing money which = £x over the term based on borrowing £y, they then calculate if they can swallow all that interest within their dealer margin ie the difference between what the car costs them and the list price they're selling it at. If the answer is no, they reduce the loan to value eg they offer 0% APR with a 50% deposit. 50% deposit = 50% less interest because you're borrowing 50% less money and therefore easier to swallow into their margin. This is why you never get 0% interest AND huge discounts because they're all just sugar coating to try and tempt people into buying before the deal ends.

There are times where a finance house will receive an increased level of discount on a car aka VRB (volume related bonus) but this is often only available on certain types of contract for example a contract hire because the quote does not show the on the road price of the vehicle. however any purchase scheme legally has to show the on the road price so in these instances they cannot and will not give you as much discount in many instances. Why? Because if they gave you the full discount they receive the first thing many customers will do is walk into said brands franchised dealer and say "can you beat this?". Well there's a fundamental issue with this. A finance company will register thousands of cars per year. A private punter buys one or two cars every few years so clearly won't receive the same support. Being a franchised main dealer they therefore will not physically have the same levels of discount at their disposal as a finance company and it causes an internal political sh*tstorm because why for example can x finance company buy a C class for less than a franchised Mercedes dealer can? Well this is why. But because of that it leaves a bitter taste and would put people out of business eventually.
 
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Thank you Tilly for your informed input.

Dryce, not quite as simple as you assumed is it?
 
Dryce, not quite as simple as you assumed is it?

It is simple - the customer just needs the numbers.

The bit that seems to complicate things unecessarily is the psychology of the deal. Also people get tangled up with trade-ins and final values and equity when all they should really be thinking is that a car is a cost and aim simply to minimise that by whatever means.

It only gets really complicated if you're trying to work out the difference in say going for a new car on a lease vs a used one.
 
Long story short... Decide on the following. Do you want to own the vehicle at the end of the term or hand it back?

Once you've decided you can then add up the relevant payments in question, cheapest overall wins. Simple. No need to worry yourself with the other shizzle (within reason).

There are a couple of exceptions to this rule like for example if you have a HP/LP deal and you don't want to keep the car when you reach the end of the term as opposed to a contract hire or PCP. On a HP/LP deal you can't simply hand it back without settling the finance off come balloon payment time and that's where common sense comes in when comparing deals in terms of if the final payment is ridiculously high it will screw you. As far as common sense is concerned, I'm sorry but due to the fact I'm not a f*cking wizard, that's one thing I cannot teach.

Now before someone tries getting cocky and talking about halves and thirds, should you ever reach the point where that becomes applicable... the chances are, unless you do astronomical mileage then you'd most likely lose out should you exercise said rights, finance companies aren't stupid and deals are calculated accordingly so they're not left holding the baby. If you don't understand the meaning of this paragraph, don't worry yourself and forget I mentioned it, it's simply for those DIY self made "experts".
 
It is simple - the customer just needs the numbers.

The bit that seems to complicate things unecessarily is the psychology of the deal. Also people get tangled up with trade-ins and final values and equity when all they should really be thinking is that a car is a cost and aim simply to minimise that by whatever means.

It only gets really complicated if you're trying to work out the difference in say going for a new car on a lease vs a used one.

It may seem simple to someone as well educated and astute as you Dryce but the issue is that due to the smoke and mirrors employed by some of these unqualified and lightly regulated salespeople the common man does not understand it at all.

Take for example interest rates, a dealer can spot what he feels to be a financially naive customer and set a higher interest rate purely to earn more commission, do you agree that such people should be punished this way?
 

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