Locking Wheel Bolts - Some Questions

[rf065]

In the last 48 years, the only bolts I've ever had any trouble getting out were unlubricated ones. Never had any problems with copperslip or ceramic paste coated bolts either, also never had a wheel come off or lost a bolt with them.

 

[SmartAmg]

In the last 48 years, the only bolts I've ever had any trouble getting out were unlubricated ones. Never had any problems with copperslip or ceramic paste coated bolts either, also never had a wheel come off or lost a bolt with them.

Hallelujah! Totally agree.

 

[E55BOF]

In view of what had been said, I thought I'd better check the locking bolts on the A207, which had been tightened at BJV after the wheels were done. They were torqued to at least 120 nm...

 

[ALFAitalia]

If they are done to the correct torque they will always come off easily...lube or not....only a problem if they are over tightened in the first place.... which is very easy to do. On my 18 inch torque wrench 130 nm is a frighteningly little amount of pressure......use a long ratchet or a breaker bar on stand on the factory supplied tool.... and you will almost certainly be well over torque. Never had the slightest issue removing a correctly tightened wheel bolt.
Makes me laugh those that say they've used it for years and never lost a wheel. I speed quite a bit.... never been caught (well not since 1985!)....does that make it the right thing to do?
Facts.
It's completely unnecessary at the correct torque.
No manufacturer says to lube wheel fixing thread..... VAG specifically warns it's staff against it.
You can't ever know if it's at the right torque as no one quotes figures for anything other than clean, dry threads.

So as much as I think you will probably get away with it if you do.... there is absolutely no reason to...so don't do it!

....sorry just couldn't resist!...but I won't reply to the inevitable flaming... so do your worst!...I know I'm right!

 

[SmartAmg]

....sorry just couldn't resist!...but I won't reply to the inevitable flaming... so do your worst!...I know I'm right!

If you say so.

 

[190]

Whether they are dry or lubricated, it always takes more torque to undo a bolt than the torque it was tightened with because static friction has to be overcome before the bolt starts to turn.

The question of how much extra torque is needed depends not so much on the threads being dry or lubricated as it does on whether there is corrosion present or not. If the threads are dry and there is some corrosion then the static friction torque required to get the bolt moving can easily be double the tightening torque or more. If there is some anti seize present the risk of corrosion is drastically reduced and therefore the risk of excessive undo torque is drastically reduced.

So in the perfect world with no corrosion, I can't argue against the correct theoretical way being dry threads but I prefer to improve the odds that corrosion won't take place and make locking wheel bolts impossible to undo with the tools in the car and that means a trace of anti seize.

Before the advent of locking wheel bolts this was a complete non issue. If the bolts were too tight for whatever reason, you just jumped on the wrench and they came undone. But you can't do that with locking wheel bolts at the side of the road so I prefer not to take the theoretical dry thread approach where they are concerned.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Whether they are dry or lubricated, it always takes more torque to undo a bolt than the torque it was tightened with because static friction has to be overcome before the bolt starts to turn.

The question of how much extra torque is needed depends not so much on the threads being dry or lubricated as it does on whether there is corrosion present or not. If the threads are dry and there is some corrosion then the static friction torque required to get the bolt moving can easily be double the tightening torque or more. If there is some anti seize present the risk of corrosion is drastically reduced and therefore the risk of excessive undo torque is drastically reduced.

So in the perfect world with no corrosion, I can't argue against the correct theoretical way being dry threads but I prefer to improve the odds that corrosion won't take place and make locking wheel bolts impossible to undo with the tools in the car and that means a trace of anti seize.

Before the advent of locking wheel bolts this was a complete non issue. If the bolts were too tight for whatever reason, you just jumped on the wrench and they came undone. But you can't do that with locking wheel bolts at the side of the road so I prefer not to take the theoretical dry thread approach where they are concerned.

For that reason and to avoid the dry threads/lubed threads discussion, for the last 10 years or so, the lockers on my cars have gone in the bin. In fact I normally go the extra mile and replace all the lug bolts with nice new RAD passivated items.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Just realised that for some reason my car does have factory style locking wheel bolts.....but only two of them!!!

 

[toteimerced]

Chuck the lockers in the bin and replace them with normal wheel bolts, wheels don’t tend to get stolen nowadays, as said, they take the whole car, because it’s easier.

 

[johncherokee]

Pipewo

In my working days drilling and repairing oil and gas wells we were daily screwing threaded metal pipes together, some of which had metal to metal seals at the bottom of the male and female threads. All these had a specified torque requirement, and would be lubricated with a thread lubricant. The normal one was "API Modified" - American Petroleum Institute modified pipe dope - which had a torque correction factor of 1.00. However, we would occasionally have to use a different thread lubricant, which also had a specified torque correction factor (normally less then 1.00), especially on the special threads with metal to metal seals.

Pipework is rarely, if ever, undone, whereas wheels need to be removed occasionally.

 

[E55BOF]

In view of what had been said, I thought I'd better check the locking bolts on the A207, which had been tightened at BJV after the wheels were done. They were torqued to at least 120 nm...

I collected the ML today (usual excellent job; thank you BJV), and mentioned in passing that the locking bolts on the A207 had been fully torqued up. The chap in the office assured me that they had not been when the wheels had been refited; definitely not, no chance, impossible... I told him I'd used my torque wrench, and there was no doubt about it, but he was adamant. I don't think he was too pleased when I said it must have been the Wheel Bolt Fairy...

 

[Chrishazle]

Pipewo

Pipework is rarely, if ever, undone, whereas wheels need to be removed occasionally.

Not applicable in my work. OK, well casing was seldom pulled and unscrewed, but the drillstring was frequently, and tubing strings commonly.

 

[johncherokee]

Not applicable in my work. OK, well casing was seldom pulled and unscrewed, but the drillstring was frequently, and tubing strings commonly.

My mistake! Thought you were talking about plumbing type pipes.