Luton Airport car park fire

[BlackC55]

Pretty sure @BlackC55 is already ready to work on EVs…

We certainly are.

 

[Gollom]

We certainly are.

Are the initial set-up costs as eye watering as I suspect? (I do understand this is a difficult thing to answer. Maybe a better question would be it the entry cost likely to lead to a big reduction in Indies?)

 

[BlackC55]

Its not too bad. My hourly rate is more for work on hybrids and electric cars if we have to "make them safe" The training is the biggest cost. Most of the faf is the safety stuff but its all common sense.

 

[clk320x]

Don't be silly. If you've read my posts, you would know my preferred motorway cruising speed. Many drivers cruise at similar speeds; perhaps they too know that coppers aren't much bothered by speeds on the motorway up to about 85, and they too concentrate on their driving, and spot police cars (both marked and unmarked) and speed cameras in time to slow appropriately?

so are you saying you won’t be pulled over/prosecuted at 85mph GPS?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My cars meet my needs, and I like them all; cost is irrelevant. You missed out driving pleasure; I love big torquey engines - how they sound, how they respond, how they s*** on most of the other cars on the roads when pushed to it... Even the (supercharged) Cooper S, in its class. I can and do enjoy driving, whatever the car.

Different cars for different needs, of course, but if I'm happy, why change any of them?

I didn't "miss out driving pleasure." I asked why you were emphasising this stupid range thing which is nonsense, and not emphasising that you need a a car that drives as well as your “current” loves.

I explicitly said that "handling, suspension, road holding, build quality, ergonomics, elegance and overall cost of ownership" are more important.

I'm testing a Tesla 3 LR at the moment, which starts EVERY day with a lovely 333 miles of range and which has a lovely Ipad thingy.

It took me three days to work out that I could never give this "EV 1.1" house room when a BMW 330i does ALL those other things (and a lot more beside) so much better.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Don't be silly. If you've read my posts, you would know my preferred motorway cruising speed. Many drivers cruise at similar speeds; perhaps they too know that coppers aren't much bothered by speeds on the motorway up to about 85, and they too concentrate on their driving, and spot police cars (both marked and unmarked) and speed cameras in time to slow appropriately?

If you were actually cruising at 85 on motorways, you'd know that it's not policemen who pull you over in the 21st century. It's cameras who send out two million speeding fines and speeding points a year.

That's why people don't cruise at 85 on British motorways any more. They might hit 85 or 90 on stretches without cameras (Below Hindhead on the A3 is my top tip)

British, French and German motorways are much slower than they were two decades ago. (Italian and American motorways: not so much) Curiously, this has happened after any damn fool has got access to 250+bhp. It's an odd contradiction)

 

[E55BOF]

so are you saying you won’t be pulled over/prosecuted at 85mph GPS?

Very unlikely by a copper, unless you're doing something stupid - racing, tailgating, undertaking, brake testing another car, diving from lane to lane etc. etc.

I didn't "miss out driving pleasure." I asked why you were emphasising this stupid range thing which is nonsense, and not emphasising that you need a a car that drives as well as your “current” loves.

I explicitly said that "handling, suspension, road holding, build quality, ergonomics, elegance and overall cost of ownership" are more important.

I'm testing a Tesla 3 LR at the moment, which starts EVERY day with a lovely 333 miles of range and which has a lovely Ipad thingy.

It took me three days to work out that I could never give this "EV 1.1" house room when a BMW 330i does ALL those other things (and a lot more beside) so much better.

View attachment 148241

You may find the 'range thing' stupid and nonsense; I don't.

If you were actually cruising nat 85 on motorways, you'd know that it's not policemen who pull you over in the 21st century. It's cameras who send out two million speeding fines and speeding points a year.

That's why people don't cruise at 85 on British motorways any more. They might hit 85 or 90 on stretches without cameras (Below Hindhead on the A3 is my top tip)

British, French and German motorways are much slower than they were two decades ago. (Italian and American motorways: not so much) Curiously, this has happened after any damn fool has got access to 250+bhp. It's an odd contradiction)

Read the second part of post 299 again. The difference is that policemen have common sense, and (Robocop aside) accept that speeding per se isn't the worst crime in the world, and cameras do not. Motorway cameras are all HADECS installations now, at least on the motorways I regularly use (M25, M40, M6, M3) and easy to spot. Only a damn fool would go past a HADECS at 85 (though there are a couple that may not go off at that speed, judging by others' speeds, but I don't intend to find out...). You should drive on the M25, or the M40 between Oxford and the M42, or the M6 when it's quiet more; plenty of cars go past me.

I don't like the stuck-on iPad look at all; I'm a traditionalist when it comes to cockpits. Enormous iPads are worse; Tesla cockpits are ghastly, and leave me absolutely cold.

Let me know the range of a Tesla 3 LR cruising at 85 mph if you ever try it. It will likely be in the low 200s, and nowhere near 300; drag increases as the square of the speed. Besides, we all know how accurate EV manufacturers' computed range figures are...

 

[clk320x]

Motorway cameras are all HADECS installations now, at least on the motorways I regularly use (M25, M40, M6, M3) and easy to spot. Only a damn fool would go past a HADECS at 85 (though there are a couple that may not go off at that speed, judging by others' speeds, but I don't intend to find out...). You should drive on the M25, or the M40 between Oxford and the M42, or the M6 when it's quiet more; plenty of cars go past me.

I don't like the stuck-on iPad look at all; I'm a traditionalist when it comes to cockpits. Enormous iPads are worse; Tesla cockpits are ghastly, and leave me absolutely cold.

So essentially you’re saying that an EV doesn’t fit your specific use case (where the car must be able to do 300 miles at 85mph without stopping) - which is absolutely fine. No one is forcing you to buy one.

 

[markjay]

So essentially you’re saying that an EV doesn’t fit your specific use case (where the car must be able to do 300 miles at 85mph without stopping) - which is absolutely fine. No one is forcing you to buy one.

It's absolutely fine - and not very common.

The issue I have is not with those few who have a genuine need to be able to do 300 miles at 85mph without stopping, but with the fact that suddenly every other member on here seems to need to be able to do 300 miles at 85mph without stopping.....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Very unlikely by a copper, unless you're doing something stupid - racing, tailgating, undertaking, brake testing another car, diving from lane to lane etc. etc.

You may find the 'range thing' stupid and nonsense; I don't.

Read the second part of post 299 again. The difference is that policemen have common sense, and (Robocop aside) accept that speeding per se isn't the worst crime in the world, and cameras do not. Motorway cameras are all HADECS installations now, at least on the motorways I regularly use (M25, M40, M6, M3) and easy to spot. Only a damn fool would go past a HADECS at 85 (though there are a couple that may not go off at that speed, judging by others' speeds, but I don't intend to find out...). You should drive on the M25, or the M40 between Oxford and the M42, or the M6 when it's quiet more; plenty of cars go past me.

I don't like the stuck-on iPad look at all; I'm a traditionalist when it comes to cockpits. Enormous iPads are worse; Tesla cockpits are ghastly, and leave me absolutely cold.

Let me know the range of a Tesla 3 LR cruising at 85 mph if you ever try it. It will likely be in the low 200s, and nowhere near 300; drag increases as the square of the speed. Besides, we all know how accurate EV manufacturers' computed range figures are...

Thanks for agreeing that you don't cruise at 85mph on UK motorways any more.

Ask a Teslerati what the stats are for a Tesla 3 LR cruising at 85mph. I have no idea. I've just done a thousand miles in the thing, and I doubt that I've averaged more than 45mph. The number's in the system somewhere, for sure, but who knows, who cares? Actual range is a bit less than that nominal , for sure, but who knows? It starts off, every day, with a range greater than the average range of any AMG's tank.

The important point, which keeps going over your head, is that no EV drives as well any of your, rather old, tired and heavily depreciated, old ICE cars. EV's just aren't that good.

As you point out, old people can't learn new technology quickly, especially version 1.1's like this. It's here today and gone tomorrow, and a nightmare to switch between different EV protocols (Tesla, Mercedes, BMW, Korean etc)

The issue isn't "range," or even "ability averaging 85mph" it's that the new products aren't good enough, or cheap enough, to convert old drivers.

 

[E55BOF]

Thanks for agreeing that you don't cruise at 85mph on UK motorways any more.

Ask a Teslerati what the stats are for a Tesla 3 LR cruising at 85mph... It starts off, every day, with a range greater than the average range of any AMG's tank.

Don't know where you got either idea, but neither is correct.

'Teslerati' would be a plural noun; the singular form would be 'tesleratum' - rhymes (a bit) with 'scrotum'...

Though cost is a factor, and so is a degree of bloody-mindedness, the main issue is range; it's nowhere near as good as my rather old, tired and heavily depreciated old ICE CLS 63. You're right that I predate the computer age, though; you might think I'm rather old, tired and heavily depreciated...

However, I've always enjoyed driving, even terrible old bangers in the past. I have no doubt I'd enjoy driving an EV if I had one, as one day I probably will, but not I think as much as my current old bangers, so you're absolutely right there. Horses for courses.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It's absolutely fine - and not very common.

The issue I have is not with those few who have a genuine need to be able to do 300 miles at 85mph without stopping, but with the fact that suddenly every other member on here seems to need to be able to do 300 miles at 85mph without stopping.....

Now updated:

Until EVs became mainstream I hadn’t realised how many people have to tow their twin axle caravan from Glasgow to Morocco three times every week, with 6 passengers, 4 bikes and 2 dobermans, at 85 mph, and they must only stop for a maximum of 5 minutes once to refuel.

I’d like to see an EV do that. And until they can - and do so for a purchase price of £5k and the energy cost no more than 10% of the cost of petrol and diesel then EVs are doomed to fail. I almost forgot that must be 10% based upon the energy prices in 1993.

And don’t get me even started on charging infrastructure (there are only three working chargers in the whole of the UK and they’re all in Daventry, and the need to replace the battery packs every 6 weeks at a cost three times greater than the cost of the car is past a joke.

The batteries are made by children and raw materials are mined by corrupt governments. During manufacture those materials must circumnavigate the world six times. A diesel must travel 544k miles before it even equals the CO2 output of manufacturing one battery.

Then there’s using it. Wind turbines don’t work without storm force winds and solar panels only work in June, so the the so called green EV is using electricity produced from fossil fuels. Hello sheeple, when will you wake up and smell the diesel fumes, I mean coffee?

And let‘s not kid ourselves, when “they” eventually install enough public chargers, the national grid can’t cope with simultaneously charging 37 million EVs from stone dead to the 150% we must all insist upon in case we have to go to the airport early one morning.

Need i mention the fact that 99.2% of the population don’t have a driveway to charge their car on, and so pavements will be littered with charging cables? And 98.7% of people rent their home and there’s no way landlords will pay to install chargers.

I could go on, but I’ll leave you with these final thoughts.

I read on an anti EV forum that a member spoke to someone in the queue at the barbers, who had read in the letters page of Auto Express that a disappointed EV driver who was forced to have an EV as a company car by their employer found that:

1. The 200 mile range claimed by the manufacturer can fall to as low as 169 miles if you drive at 112 mph in the midday heat of the Sahara desert, or in temperatures below -42 degrees C. We get both extremes every day here in Luton.

2. They had to take their car back for a recall, and the dealer told them that there had been another one in for the same recall the week before, and that the senior master technician said that they had once done a warranty claim on an EV too. The headlamps misted up.

3. In 2022, at the main dealer it takes nine senior master technicians three days to make an EV safe enough to change the window wiper blades. In 1977 I changed the engine in my Ford Granada on the footpath, on my own, at night, in 20 minutes. And that’s progress?

4. The UK is accountable for 0.7% of global CO2 emissions, and privately own cars make up 0.1% of that, so unless China stop building 92 coal powered power stations every week then there’s absolutely no point doing anything about it.

EVs aren’t the solution, but that won’t stop the Government forcing everyone to buy an EV just like they forced everyone to buy a diesel. We should definitely invest in hydrogen, hydrogen is definitely the future and the infrastructure could definitely be ready by next week.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Lol.....well some of that is actually correct!....ish!

 

[Petrol Pete]

let's dry to drag this thread back in line.

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[SmartAmg]

Now updated:

Until EVs became mainstream I hadn’t realised how many people have to tow their twin axle caravan from Glasgow to Morocco three times every week, with 6 passengers, 4 bikes and 2 dobermans, at 85 mph, and they must only stop for a maximum of 5 minutes once to refuel.

I’d like to see an EV do that. And until they can - and do so for a purchase price of £5k and the energy cost no more than 10% of the cost of petrol and diesel then EVs are doomed to fail. I almost forgot that must be 10% based upon the energy prices in 1993.

And don’t get me even started on charging infrastructure (there are only three working chargers in the whole of the UK and they’re all in Daventry, and the need to replace the battery packs every 6 weeks at a cost three times greater than the cost of the car is past a joke.

The batteries are made by children and raw materials are mined by corrupt governments. During manufacture those materials must circumnavigate the world six times. A diesel must travel 544k miles before it even equals the CO2 output of manufacturing one battery.

Then there’s using it. Wind turbines don’t work without storm force winds and solar panels only work in June, so the the so called green EV is using electricity produced from fossil fuels. Hello sheeple, when will you wake up and smell the diesel fumes, I mean coffee?

And let‘s not kid ourselves, when “they” eventually install enough public chargers, the national grid can’t cope with simultaneously charging 37 million EVs from stone dead to the 150% we must all insist upon in case we have to go to the airport early one morning.

Need i mention the fact that 99.2% of the population don’t have a driveway to charge their car on, and so pavements will be littered with charging cables? And 98.7% of people rent their home and there’s no way landlords will pay to install chargers.

I could go on, but I’ll leave you with these final thoughts.

I read on an anti EV forum that a member spoke to someone in the queue at the barbers, who had read in the letters page of Auto Express that a disappointed EV driver who was forced to have an EV as a company car by their employer found that:

1. The 200 mile range claimed by the manufacturer can fall to as low as 169 miles if you drive at 112 mph in the midday heat of the Sahara desert, or in temperatures below -42 degrees C. We get both extremes every day here in Luton.

2. They had to take their car back for a recall, and the dealer told them that there had been another one in for the same recall the week before, and that the senior master technician said that they had once done a warranty claim on an EV too. The headlamps misted up.

3. In 2022, at the main dealer it takes nine senior master technicians three days to make an EV safe enough to change the window wiper blades. In 1977 I changed the engine in my Ford Granada on the footpath, on my own, at night, in 20 minutes. And that’s progress?

4. The UK is accountable for 0.7% of global CO2 emissions, and privately own cars make up 0.1% of that, so unless China stop building 92 coal powered power stations every week then there’s absolutely no point doing anything about it.

EVs aren’t the solution, but that won’t stop the Government forcing everyone to buy an EV just like they forced everyone to buy a diesel. We should definitely invest in hydrogen, hydrogen is definitely the future and the infrastructure could definitely be ready by next week.

Brilliant!

 

[92Adam]

Erm as fire as car park is concerned…

Fire-ravaged Luton Airport car park likely to be demolished Fire-ravaged Luton Airport car park likely to be demolished

 

[rf065]

Erm as fire as car park is concerned…

Fire-ravaged Luton Airport car park likely to be demolished Fire-ravaged Luton Airport car park likely to be demolished

If we're going to live with 100% EV's in the near future, I fear everywhere we park these vehicles will have to be looked at in a way no one has before. Imagine a shopping mall or other building with underground parking and thousands of people above it and something like this happens, doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[Darrell]

Erm as fire as car park is concerned…

Fire-ravaged Luton Airport car park likely to be demolished Fire-ravaged Luton Airport car park likely to be demolished

Looking at the photos etc it’s not surprising.

 

[Darrell]

If we're going to live with 100% EV's in the near future, I fear everywhere we park these vehicles will have to be looked at in a way no one has before. Imagine a shopping mall or other building with underground parking and thousands of people above it and something like this happens, doesn't bear thinking about.

‘Some’ experts have come to this conclusion.


Car spaces should be made wider to reduce risk of fire, experts warn

 

[rf065]

‘Some’ experts have come to this conclusion.


Car spaces should be made wider to reduce risk of fire, experts warn

I could have told them parking spaces should be bigger decades ago, but nothing to do with EV's!