Mercedes 190e 2.5-16 cosworth

[Palfrem]

1990 MERCEDES 190E 2.5-16 COSWORTH | eBay

Familiar?

 

[John Jones Jr]

''The Cosworth edition was Mercedes Benz answer to the iconic E30 M3, to match its performance but in luxury. This performance was proven when a very young Ayrton Senna had the chance to prove his skill against other, more famous Formula 1 Drivers, at the opening of the new Nurburgring in 1984 almost standard 190e Cosworths, in which he drove it out of his skin and logged a win....and onto an iconic Formula One career.

Only 10,000 of these were ever made, from the earlier 2.3 to the later 2.5, the DVLA Stats suggest there are less than 75 of these examples registered for driving in the UK. This is the later and more preferred by enthusiasts 2.5 version ''

Cosworth, ten thousand...If the seller can't get the basic facts right I'd question the condition/price. Still worth a look all the same.

 

[mercmush]

Entertaining to read if only for the last bit:

Sensible people only to enquire please. If you think there is any chance you might be an idiot, please reply to the other ads.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Entertaining to read if only for the last bit:

Sensible people only to enquire please. If you think there is any chance you might be an idiot, please reply to the other ads.

Ha, ha. I didn't see that as I couldn't be bothered to read much after the first one or two paragraphs.

 

[Marcel-Anthony]

I used to have a 2.3 16v a long while back, I was told then that it was only the 2.3 that could be considered the Cosworth, due to the engine being designed by Cosworth. The later 2.5 engine was all Mercedes designed. Was this true ?.

Would love another one.

 

[stwat]

No. They were never 'Cosworths' to begin with. Mike Hall of Cosworth designed the head. cosworth then cast the heads up until demand for the cars became to high for Cosworth to handle so production went over to Mercedes. This actually happened during the production of the 2.3-16.

So the heads are all Cosworth design. But as I said, the cars were never officially known as Cosworths.

 

[Marcel-Anthony]

Was the head for the 2.5 not a merc design. Hence the real purists go for the 2.3 and don't class this one the "Cosworth" If not you learn something every day.

 

[Dee-124CAB]

Still waiting for these to go up in value like the E30 M3, which seems to have been on the constant rise for like close to ten years now...

The same clamour and demand for these just doesnt seem to be there, which is quite baffling when you consider that when they were new they were "one of the cars to have" and in demand as much as the E30 was..... and we all know how nostalgia can fuel demand....

Sooo underated and undervalued...imo!

 

[John Jones Jr]

Was the head for the 2.5 not a merc design. Hence the real purists go for the 2.3 and don't class this one the "Cosworth" If not you learn something every day.

Maybe, maybe not. The 2.5 head just like the 2.3 had a Coscast stamp on it and has a Cosworth designation WAB, the 2.3 WAA and the EVO & EVOII WAC. Still the 2.5-16 including the EVO's could well have been designed by M-B and produced by Cosworth as there was many design changes between the 2.3 & 2.5's including the blocks from what I understand.

 

[stwat]

Was the head for the 2.5 not a merc design. Hence the real purists go for the 2.3 and don't class this one the "Cosworth" If not you learn something every day.

As far as I am aware, the only differences between the 2.3 and 2.5 were with the bottom end. Which was always a Merc block to begin with.

The 2.3 is a freer revving engine which may be why a lot of people seem to prefer them. That has a lot to do with the simplex chain. The EVO models used the simplex chain system also. The 2.5's (none EVO) being a bit more relaxed and easier to use every day.

I certainly miss my 2.3 badly. Such a brilliant car.

 

[John Jones Jr]

As far as I am aware, the only differences between the 2.3 and 2.5 was with the bottom end. Which was always a Merc block to begin with.

The 2.3 is freer revving engine which may be why a lot of people seem to prefer them. The 2.5's being a bit more relaxed and easier to use every day.

I certainly miss my 2.3 badly. Such a brilliant car.

I'm fairly certain the 2.5 head has larger valves and ports. I think the reason the 2.3 is slightly freer rev'ing is simply due to it being even more over square due to 200cc less displacement as the bores are the same on both engines.

 

[Marcel-Anthony]

Agreed regarding the 2.3. I have some photos of mine at my mothers house would love to find them a post a few. Thinking back now it was around 1994/5 when I had mine and I was the tender age of 23. Its all gone down hill from then......................

 

[stwat]

I'm fairly certain the 2.5 head has larger valves and ports. I think the reason the 2.3 is slightly free rev'ing is simply due to it being even more over square due to 200cc less displacement as the bores are the same on both engines.

I see, thanks for that

 

[John Jones Jr]

Still waiting for these to go up in value like the E30 M3, which seems to have been on the constant rise for like close to ten years now...

The same clamour and demand for these just doesnt seem to be there, which is quite baffling when you consider that when they were new they were "one of the cars to have" and in demand as much as the E30 was..... and we all know how nostalgia can fuel demand....

Sooo underated and undervalued...imo!

Part of the reason the W201 was a major departure for M-B, at the time it would fair to say M-B's were not known for a younger following and then add a 'hot' and very pricey version, it wasn't ideal for those moving from the likes of VW GTi's for example, also too it's accepted that the cheaper M3 was the better handler (if nothing else) with a little more poke too. And I have to admit I had several E21's & E30's, at the time these were considered more sporty than the W201, quicker too & with immediate availability of sweet six pots.

 

[Will]

I'm fairly certain the 2.5 head has larger valves and ports. I think the reason the 2.3 is slightly freer rev'ing is simply due to it being even more over square due to 200cc less displacement as the bores are the same on both engines.

Yep, the 2.3 has a shorter throw on the crank - hence more revvy. 2.5-16 was stroked for the extra 200cc - hence more power but a little less character . Evo 2.5-16 engines are bored out for the extra capacity. The chain design has little to do with the performance realistically. 2.5-16 is a more reliable engine but much of that is to do with the tensioner design as well as the stronger chain and sprockets (duplex/double row)

All great engines and probably as much difference car-to-car nowadays as model type with many due for an engine/cylinder head rebuild if not done recently.

 

[John Jones Jr]

with many due for an engine/cylinder head rebuild if not done recently.

Deffo, this is the key to having a sweet 16V besides checking the valves for shimming every 8-10K, just an awful pity so many owners never bothered or more likely never allowed for it when buying. I reckon there was many a car broken/scrapped due head & injection systems not being maintained correctly.

 

[Watchcame430]

What do we know about this one? Any rust?

 

[Charles Morgan]

It's a 140k car that's 24 years old with no mention of any bodywork being done. If it has't got any rust in all the usual places, I'm Donald Duck. On the basis of my car, I'd reckon that will need up to 10k spent on it to get it to what it should be. At 24 years old all the over-engineering has been used up. Head and valves will certainly need doing, suspension and bodywork too, unless the service file includes recent work that hasn't been mentioned.

I'd like to think good ones of these will ultimately reach E30 M3 prices, having now had all the suspension redone on mine, with a refurbished steering box and a complete top end rebuild, the car is just spectacular to drive, earning plaudits from a friend who thinks the M3 great. However, there are an awful number of tired ones around that need a lot of work, and the market doesn't give much value to any work you do on the car.

 

[jaymanek]

They will certainly shoot up in value and there will be large differential between the used cars and the cared for ones.

 

[mazza]

''The Cosworth edition was Mercedes Benz answer to the iconic E30 M3, to match its performance but in luxury. This performance was proven when a very young Ayrton Senna had the chance to prove his skill against other, more famous Formula 1 Drivers, at the opening of the new Nurburgring in 1984 almost standard 190e Cosworths, in which he drove it out of his skin and logged a win....and onto an iconic Formula One career.

Only 10,000 of these were ever made, from the earlier 2.3 to the later 2.5, the DVLA Stats suggest there are less than 75 of these examples registered for driving in the UK. This is the later and more preferred by enthusiasts 2.5 version ''

Cosworth, ten thousand...If the seller can't get the basic facts right I'd question the condition/price. Still worth a look all the same.

Hi

just a few things

actually, the E30 M3 was BMW'S answer to the Mercedes 190e 2.3-16v

2.3-16v was breaking land speed records in 1983
M3's were introduced in 1985

M3's have a much better racing CV, hence prices.

2.3-16 & 2.5-16 have the same valves
2.5 have larger inlet & exhaust ports, exhaust/inlet manifolds,different camshaft profiles/timing, KE jetronic sensor plate is conical which allows for better air flow

mazza


mazza