Mercedes A150 W169 Not Starting?

[Bhavick28]

Hey Guys,

Just a quick update we picked up my dads car from the garage yesterday and as i mentioned before they said the drain holes were blocked and they provided us with this link which they said explains the same issue we are having with our car:

Mercedes A Class with water in battery compartment

I took our car to the Mercedes garage yesterday because of an intermittent failure to start.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com

What do you guys think? Shall i check all the areas around the windscreen wipers and make sure nothings blocked up by leaves and debris? Any area i should pay special attention to? To be fair i just had a quick look at lofty's page and was looking at replacing the pollen filter as we haven't serviced our car since we brought it so i thought water could be getting in from there.

Bert Rowe, Lofty's homepage. A-class info W169, Activated carbon filter, Location Replace,

Lofty's Homepage, Mercedes-benz W169 'A' Class, Air conditioning Crbon filter replacement

www.aclassinfo.co.uk

Thanks

 

[Bhavick28]

Hey Guys,

Just picked up my dads car from the garage yesterday and they provided us with this link which they said is the same issue we've got with our:

water battery box mercedes A150 - Google Search

What do you guys think? I am going to check all the drain holes near the windscreen wiper to make sure nothing blocked up with dirt/debris. Also found this on Loftys page,

Bert Rowe, Lofty's homepage. A-class info W169, Activated carbon filter, Location Replace,

Lofty's Homepage, Mercedes-benz W169 'A' Class, Air conditioning Crbon filter replacement

www.aclassinfo.co.uk

Apparently water can leak down through there as well. They've also provided us with some videos where it shows some corrosion around the fuse box, need to get this sorted ASAP. If anyone's got any additional advice of things to check/look out for out please let me know guys.

P.S Sorry guys looks like I've done a double post apologies for that bloody PC!

 

[wongl]

Your A-Class battery is located below the driver's floor - if this is filling up with water you have a drain hole that is blocked - most likely the drain hole in your pollen filter housing as per the link your have proivdded in Bert Rowe's website.

Luckily the fuse box on the W169 is located inline with the top of the battery, so you would have had to had a lot of water collected in the battery compartment to flood out the fuse box. That said, you may have some wiring issues if your harness has been sitting in a pool of water for several months or years.

I would take immediate action to unblock the drainage hole in the pollen filter housing and also to take the floor lid off the battery compartment to dry out the compartment. From there you can assess the damage to the wiring harness. It might be a simple case of replacing a corroded negative strap?

 

[Bhavick28]

Hi,

I've just removed the pollen filter and no surprise the drain hole is blocked up but what's the best way to clean it? Lofty advises a polythene tube and pushing it through the center of the drain hole but how far down can you push it and is there anything at the bottom of the hole, i don' want to risk pushing something out of place or damaging something?

Also i removed the floor lid and checked both the battery and fuse box and i couldn't spot any obvious water or dampness but there was some corrosion, at least that's what i think it looks like. I took some picture that you can see in the links below:

20200722-155545 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20200722-155545 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

20200722-155550 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20200722-155550 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

20200722-155559 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20200722-155559 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Thanks

 

[Bhavick28]

I've just cleaned out the majority of the debri/dirt that was in the drainage hole underneath the pollen filter, I just did a little test and poured some water through the vents near the windscreen wipers and the water trickled down to the drainage hole and then it started draining out behind the engine, is it supposed to do that? As i thought the starter motor was located at the back of the engine and i could visibly see the water hitting engine parts as it was dripping out.

 

[wongl]

I've just cleaned out the majority of the debri/dirt that was in the drainage hole underneath the pollen filter, I just did a little test and poured some water through the vents near the windscreen wipers and the water trickled down to the drainage hole and then it started draining out behind the engine, is it supposed to do that? As i thought the starter motor was located at the back of the engine and i could visibly see the water hitting engine parts as it was dripping out.

Yes, the water is suppose to drain out from there - Personally I don't buy the rational about the starter motor being damaged by water dripping down from the drain hole - the drain holes were designed by MB to be where they are and in very W169. If this is a problem, then many more W169 (if not all W169) would suffer from this design flaw! Furthermore, I am sure the starter motor (in the W169 especially due to its proxity to the ground) is exposed to water spray whilst the car is driven in heavy rain. I have owned one W168 and there were four W169 in my family - none suffered a starter motor issue during our ownership (ranging from a minimum of 4 years to over 10 years). One of our W169 has over 150k miles on its clock and running great if the suspension is a little loose now.

The CVT gearbox is a definite weakness in the W168/W169 but easily fixable and watch out for corrosion around the door edges on the preface-lift W169 (fixed in the face-lift version with a redesigned finish to the lip). Other weaknesses include the multifunction stalk which typically require replacing circa 100K miles from wear and tear - you will know if the high beam starts flicking on its own or if the turn signal stops working.

 

[Bhavick28]

Yes, the water is suppose to drain out from there - Personally I don't buy the rational about the starter motor being damaged by water dripping down from the drain hole - the drain holes were designed by MB to be where they are and in very W169. If this is a problem, then many more W169 (if not all W169) would suffer from this design flaw! Furthermore, I am sure the starter motor (in the W169 especially due to its proxity to the ground) is exposed to water spray whilst the car is driven in heavy rain. I have owned one W168 and there were four W169 in my family - none suffered a starter motor issue during our ownership (ranging from a minimum of 4 years to over 10 years). One of our W169 has over 150k miles on its clock and running great if the suspension is a little loose now.

The CVT gearbox is a definite weakness in the W168/W169 but easily fixable and watch out for corrosion around the door edges on the preface-lift W169 (fixed in the face-lift version with a redesigned finish to the lip). Other weaknesses include the multifunction stalk which typically require replacing circa 100K miles from wear and tear - you will know if the high beam starts flicking on its own or if the turn signal stops working.

Thanks for your reply that makes sense so now i have cleared the drain hole and that would not be causing the issues with starter motor would water splashing from under the engine as you have mentioned cause the starter motor not to work? Would water exposure stop it intermediately if its exposed to certain elements on the starter motor?

The last few days the starter motor has been fine as well.

 

[wongl]

Thanks for your reply that makes sense so now i have cleared the drain hole and that would not be causing the issues with starter motor would water splashing from under the engine as you have mentioned cause the starter motor not to work? Would water exposure stop it intermediately if its exposed to certain elements on the starter motor?

The last few days the starter motor has been fine as well.

If the drain hole in the pollen filter compartment is cleared, you will probably find that not that much water will actually drain into that compartment and the amount of water will be negligible - how ever, if blocked the water has nowhere to drain and will seep into the passenger compartment and into the battery compartment (the lowest point in the W169) with nowhere else to drain off to, so it will rot the stuff in the battery compartment until the water dries off.

The fact that said garage is already questioning the starting motor they supplied previously, suggests to me:

1) the quality is poor and they are looking for an excuse to replace under warranty at their costs

2) the garage is incompetent and therefore incorrectly diagnosed a faulty starter motor when the problem lies elsewhere (perhaps a simple problem with a corroded earthing strap inside the battery compartment that is working intermittently).

Now that you have fixed the drainage, keep the battery compartment dry (suggest you take the battery out to dry it out properly. Once dried would suggest maybe spraying with some anti-rusting wax (such as Waxoly) to protect potential corrosion issues down the road. Taking the battery out will allow you to give the compartment a proper inspection too and spot any corroded straps etc.

 

[Bhavick28]

If the drain hole in the pollen filter compartment is cleared, you will probably find that not that much water will actually drain into that compartment and the amount of water will be negligible - how ever, if blocked the water has nowhere to drain and will seep into the passenger compartment and into the battery compartment (the lowest point in the W169) with nowhere else to drain off to, so it will rot the stuff in the battery compartment until the water dries off.

The fact that said garage is already questioning the starting motor they supplied previously, suggests to me:

1) the quality is poor and they are looking for an excuse to replace under warranty at their costs

2) the garage is incompetent and therefore incorrectly diagnosed a faulty starter motor when the problem lies elsewhere (perhaps a simple problem with a corroded earthing strap inside the battery compartment that is working intermittently).

Now that you have fixed the drainage, keep the battery compartment dry (suggest you take the battery out to dry it out properly. Once dried would suggest maybe spraying with some anti-rusting wax (such as Waxoly) to protect potential corrosion issues down the road. Taking the battery out will allow you to give the compartment a proper inspection too and spot any corroded straps etc.

Hi thanks for your reply so is there components in the battery compartment that directly have a impact on the starter motor working? What are these components? As you can see from the pictures i posted there was some show of water damage but not a lot but if someone can tell me which components to look for I can have a look and make sure they haven't been damaged from any water entering the battery compartment previously?

 

[Tezz]

if it was my car I would not focused on starter issue, I think this is a by product of other electrical issues.

If the servicing of car has been neglected and water has got in Via the blocked drain that could be your real issue with water/corrosion damage to front fuse board, Front Sam or possible earth bonds may be issue. This is fairly common if the drain is left blocked for long enough.

They may have jumped to wrong conclusion replacing starter.

electrical issues with out some knowledge and skill can be very difficult to trace and even more difficult over the Net without seeing car

Your best bet is still to find a good specialist independent INDI and get car put on start system, ask them to check all systems

Check every electrical system on car, make a note of any not working, and any that have played up even once and give list to INDI rather than say its starter needs replacing.

Its impossible to say for sure what issue is with out going over car, basic checks and diagnostic system (Star)

Once you have had the car on star you will have a place to start.

Tezz

 

[wongl]

Hi thanks for your reply so is there components in the battery compartment that directly have a impact on the starter motor? Especially if they had been wet and what are they? As you can see from the pictures i posted there was some show of water damage but not a lot but if someone can tell me which components to look for I can have a look and make sure they haven't been damaged from any water entering the battery compartment previously?

The main inspection I would do is to look for a strap from the negative side of the battery going to the engine. A corroded strap is often the root cause to starting issues related to the start motor. That said, the corrosion is often on the engine side as this exposed to the salt, water and grime. But there is no harm to inspect and check deeper down inside the battery compartment now that you know there is corrosion in there! You just want to eliminate any thing in there misbehaving so that you can focus your fault finding elsewhere. Check to see if there are any wiring harnesses in there and any electrical plugs effected by the water.

 

[Bhavick28]

if it was my car I would not focused on starter issue, I think this is a by product of other electrical issues.

If the servicing of car has been neglected and water has got in Via the blocked drain that could be your real issue with water/corrosion damage to front fuse board, Front Sam or possible earth bonds may be issue. This is fairly common if the drain is left blocked for long enough.

They may have jumped to wrong conclusion replacing starter.

electrical issues with out some knowledge and skill can be very difficult to trace and even more difficult over the Net without seeing car

Your best bet is still to find a good specialist independent INDI and get car put on start system, ask them to check all systems

Check every electrical system on car, make a note of any not working, and any that have played up even once and give list to INDI rather than say its starter needs replacing.

Its impossible to say for sure what issue is with out going over car, basic checks and diagnostic system (Star)

Once you have had the car on star you will have a place to start.

Tezz

Hi Tezz,

Thanks for your reply, well i think the next logical thing to check which i should of really done before cleaning out the drainage hole underneath the pollen filter is the battery, i want to make sure there's enough voltage. I've got a voltmeter but i wanted to ask what's the correct way of testing the battery with a voltmeter?

If if this an issue that i can't sort out myself then an indi specialist is going to be the way forward, because at the moment all am doing is assuming what could be wrong with it!

 

[Bhavick28]

The main inspection I would do is to look for a strap from the negative side of the battery going to the engine. A corroded strap is often the root cause to starting issues related to the start motor. That said, the corrosion is often on the engine side as this exposed to the salt, water and grime. But there is no harm to inspect and check deeper down inside the battery compartment now that you know there is corrosion in there! You just want to eliminate any thing in there misbehaving so that you can focus your fault finding elsewhere. Check to see if there are any wiring harnesses in there and any electrical plugs effected by the water.

Thanks for your reply, i'm going to check the black negative strap going to battery for any corrosion etc etc. I think your right it's best to take a deeper look in and around the fuse box and battery to make sure no wires have been damaged that could be causing the starting the issue.

 

[wongl]

Thanks for your reply, i'm going to check the black negative strap going to battery for any corrosion etc etc. I think your right it's best to take a deeper look in and around the fuse box and battery to make sure no wires have been damaged that could be causing the starting the issue.

Good luck. Good detective work (together with the input from fellow members) often will allow you to discover the root cause without relying on doggy garages to give bad advice!

 

[Bhavick28]

Good luck. Good detective work (together with the input from fellow members) often will allow you to discover the root cause without relying on doggy garages to give bad advice!

Thanks for your help and all the other members who shared there advice i really appreciate it.

 

[wongl]

I've got a voltmeter but i wanted to ask what's the correct way of testing the battery with a voltmeter?

You need to test the battery under load - can you drive your car to halfords and ask them to test it for you?

Alternatively, if using a voltmeter, I would insert the car keys to position 2 (but without starting the car) so that you can turn on the rear demister, highbeam, fog lights, blower to highest fan setting and check the battery voltage.

 

[Bhavick28]

You need to test the battery under load - can you drive your car to halfords and ask them to test it for you?

Alternatively, if using a voltmeter, I would insert the car keys to position 2 (but without starting the car) so that you can turn on the rear demister, highbeam, fog lights, blower to highest fan setting and check the battery voltage.

OK i can certainly do that what you are advising but how exactly do i connect up the voltmeter to the battery and how do i check it's getting enough charge?

Thanks

 

[wongl]

OK i can certainly do that what you are advising but how exactly do i connect up the voltmeter to the battery and how do i check it's getting enough charge?

Thanks

You are asking two different questions here.

1) To check if the battery is okay you need test the battery under load but switching on the high powered accessories (like headlamps, blower, rear demister, etc). This is to cause the accessories to draw several amps from the battery (without the alternator charging the battery) while you take a reading of the voltage by connecting the voltmeter across the positive and negative terminals of the battery. The voltage under load should not drop too much (someone will come alone shortly to say what an acceptable voltage reading would be).

2) To check if the battery is getting enough charge you will need a amp-meter, but this requires to be connected in series to the battery which will involve disconnecting of of the terminal - tricky and not recommended. So a cheap trick is to start the car and let it idle then switch on all the accessories as above in #1. Take a reading of the voltage across the battery and check if the headlight dims as you turn on more accessories - normally the headlights will dim a little. Then rev the car to about 2000 rpm and the headlights should recover its brightness. The voltage reading should circa 14V if your alternator is functioning correctly.

 

[Bhavick28]

You are asking two different questions here.

1) To check if the battery is okay you need test the battery under load but switching on the high powered accessories (like headlamps, blower, rear demister, etc). This is to cause the accessories to draw several amps from the battery (without the alternator charging the battery) while you take a reading of the voltage by connecting the voltmeter across the positive and negative terminals of the battery. The voltage under load should not drop too much (someone will come alone shortly to say what an acceptable voltage reading would be).

2) To check if the battery is getting enough charge you will need a amp-meter, but this requires to be connected in series to the battery which will involve disconnecting of of the terminal - tricky and not recommended. So a cheap trick is to start the car and let it idle then switch on all the accessories as above in #1. Take a reading of the voltage across the battery and check if the headlight dims as you turn on more accessories - normally the headlights will dim a little. Then rev the car to about 2000 rpm and the headlights should recover its brightness. The voltage reading should circa 14V if your alternator is functioning correctly.

I just measured the voltage of the battery and these are the two tests that i did. (Also forgot to mention I've got a digital multi meter not a voltmeter sorry for any confusion) I set the multimeter to 20V before i started using it.

1) First i just connected up the multi meter to both the positive and negative terminals on the battery and i got a reading of 12.71 The car was not started nor was the key in the ignition when i did this, only the drivers side door was open slightly.

2) Next i put the key in the ignition and turned it twice not starting the engine but some dashboard lights came on, i then switched the radio on, the heating on full blast and even put the headlights on including the beams and i got a reading of 11.80

Not sure if these readings are any good hopefully someone can let me know?

Thanks

 

[Tezz]

Take car to Halfords for free battery/charging check

Free Battery Health Check | Halfords UK

Shop the latest at Halfords UK

www.halfords.com

RAC have a sale on if you cover 1 car, full breakdown, recovery and at home with free battery replacement just £9 per month

YOU HAVE TO WAIT 14 DAYS MIN AFTER COVER STARTS TO CLAIM A FREE BATTERY.

just call them out once car fails to start, they will check battery and codes ect

https://www.rac.co.uk/