Mercedes-AMG considering electric turbos

[The _Don]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/91804/mercedes-amg-considering-electric-turbos

 

[John Jones Jr]

Great, as I always liked the idea. The sooner mainstream manufacturers start using them the better, hopefully then it won't be long before retrofit kits are available from aftermarket performance companies.

 

[renault12ts]

Combined with electrically operated valves (no camshaft)...what an engine that would be.

 

[frostbite]

I thought that one of the great things about turbos is that they use energy in the exhaust gases that is otherwise disappearing down the tubes. Surely driving the compressor of a turbo with electricity leaves the exhaust energy untapped and needs some energy from the engine/alternator? So, although I guess it'll be lighter in weight and more compact, is it any more efficient than a conventional supercharger?

 

[roastbeef]

I thought some manufactures are already using elctrical or compressed air turbos to over come turbo lag , but as already been said what's the point of going fully electrical if exhaust gasses are being wasted

 

[John Jones Jr]

So, although I guess it'll be lighter in weight and more compact, is it any more efficient than a conventional supercharger?

I'd imagine without doubt. I presume the disadvantage of turbo engines is overcoming lag, under bonnet temps plus complexity and possibly elec. turbos will be cheaper to produce too, highly likely along with being more fuel efficient. The elec. turbo could be operated on a unlimited switched basis I'd imagine as well. Also too not everybody wants the driving characteristics of a conventional turbo engine, maybe not a major consideration for manufacturers but certainly one for the likes of myself. Worth noting how late Honda and Ferrari came to the turbo 'love' fest.

 

[Bellow]

Electric turbos as already stated, are all about overcoming lag without having to pour fuel into the engine when there is no air there, merely to spool up a conventional turbo (air led vs fuel led). Once boost is achieved the conventional turbo's threshold will be reached and it can take over. An electric turbo running continually would need serious battery capacity to sustain it. IIRC they draw something like 6hp.

Honda were late coming to turbos due to fuel quality concerns (esp in USA), Ferrari as they feared the exhaust noise would be compromised.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Honda were late coming to turbos due to fuel quality concerns (esp in USA), Ferrari as they feared the exhaust noise would be compromised.

Neither reason you offer stack up. You're implying Honda couldn't deal with U.S. fuel while other manufacturers can.. and Ferrari's only concern was the exhaust note...

 

[Bellow]

Neither reason you offer stack up. You're implying Honda couldn't deal with U.S. fuel while other manufacturers can.. and Ferrari's only concern was the exhaust note...

Honda are on the record saying they believed V-TEC was a better solution for them than turbo for USA market where fuel quality is variable.

Not Ferrari's only concern but one of them. For marketing reasons exhaust sound was all important to Ferrari (see 2nd last paragraph in linked article) along with throttle response.

Engine Technology International - June 2015

Here >>http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/5f0fe2ac#/5f0fe2ac/56 there is a piece on electric turbos in an article that suggests future petrol engines will be operating in a rev range 800-1500rpm.

 

[John Jones Jr]

You can spin it anyway you like but the bottom line is very simple, the onslaught of turbo engines is a way of reducing emissions without losing performance. It really is that simple. Here's the reasons both Honda & Ferrari are late to the turbo love fest. Nothing to do with U.S. fuel or exhausts notes.

Quote: Honda's reluctance to go the turbo route despite all of its competitors doing so most definitely stems from its concerns that turbocharging would blunt the prized characteristics of Honda performance engines]. Even so, with emissions and fuel economy targets being increasingly more demanding, Honda announced a trio of turbocharged engines late in 2013, the crown jewel being the CTR's two-litre four-cylinder turbo engine with VTEC variable valve timing.

Creating a high output turbocharged engine is relatively easy, but our aim is to retain the VTEC characteristics, so it's high revving, with great responses and easy to control performance," said Patrik Ponec, a product planner at Honda in an interview with CAR magazine, UK.''

Quote from R&T "We don't like the turbo," said the man with the Italian accent. Before I could stand up and cheer, he continued, "but it's the right way to reduce emissions without sacrificing performance."

 

[Bellow]

I was merely quoting what Honda had said in the past (pre2013). Whether they were lying or not I wouldn't know.

Really though, to not recognise the importance of engine noise to Ferrari and pretend it doesn't matter to them does not wash. Wailing Ferraris sell - not whispering chuffing ones.

 

[John Jones Jr]

.

Really though, to make claims like fuel quality and noise where the reasons for not employing turbos certainly doesn't wash

Ha,ha more spin from you. So, I fixed it!

I don't know why you are going on about pre 2013 (US market no less) when both Honda and Ferrari have just introduced turbo engines for the first time to their best selling models into Europe last month.

As far as your red herring comment goes about noise, of course engine noise matters, it matters so much manufacturers spend millions on it. Nobody is denying it either (unless I missed something) it's just that emissions come first.