Motorcyclist given 39 points!

[glojo]

I agree with your comments John.

From the news article it suggests the speed was very dangerous but it strikes me that it might be a safer road to travel at 80mph than THIS one.

At 80mph, bikes like this feel like they are going at a snails pace. Stopping from said speed could be done as quickly as say... an old beetle or Morris minor at 40mph. If the posted limit at one time was 50 or 60 then the unassuming chap wearing a flat cap in his moggy minor a few years ago might actually have presented more of a danger than our modern day power ranger.

Couldn't defend either circumstance but at least in one example the driver has been charged with causing a death by dangerous driving.

I fully accept that the brakes on a modern bike are far, far superior to previous generations but human reactions haven't improved, and if the unexpected were to happen then the consequences are not going to be pleasant.

Does anyone know the result of Sp!ke's highlighted court case?

Regards
John

 

[oldcro]

80 mph is equal to 117 feet per second as compared to 44.1 feet per second at 30 mph, and that is dangerous driving by any standards especially in a 30 mph speed limited area. He's lucky he did not kill someone.

Bearing in mind that driving kills more people (average of 3000 per year) than anything other than activity performed by the general public he deserves a lifetime ban and 10 years. Remember this was not a one-off incident of his speeding.

 

[W210 Fan]

the police view on this is that there is no reason for doing that speed on that road, regardless time of day, crash barriers lights, moons or low flying ducks, just to point out a person I know was given six points for performing a burn out in a pub car park on his kwaka, he argued it was private land, they pointed at the open gate and said with public access, your wheels are spinning so your not in control thus you are dangerous, this guy on the road will have even less defense that the idiot I met,

 

[UnMarked]

I have to say ...For sure he was being a bit of an idiot doing this in front of the camera but dangerous? Not necessarily so.

I would imagine that most motorists would feel pulling wheelies at over 80mph on any road would be considered as dangerous - he clearly didn't have full control of his bike at this time did he? I'm really surprised the idiot wasn't charged with Dangerous Driving (as the evidence appears to be there for all to see).

 

[Sp!ke]

I would imagine that most motorists would feel pulling wheelies at over 80mph on any road would be considered as dangerous - he clearly didn't have full control of his bike at this time did he? I'm really surprised the idiot wasn't charged with Dangerous Driving (as the evidence appears to be there for all to see).

You have first hand knowledge of 80mph wheelies or is this mere speculation unmarked?

What you have there is a still shot the bike at 1/250 of a second. Was this a monster wheelie or did the wheel momentarily lift at gear change? Without knowing which of the two it was, how can you possibly make those comments?

80 mph on a bike like this he could have just changed into second gear... and without being able to see the road ahead, none of us can say for sure whether that was a reasonable speed for the conditions or not.

I'm not trying to defend this chap but feel that there's an awful lot of assumptions based on very little evidence.

Just as you can assume the extreme danger, I can also be that it was safe as from the evidence in the OP's links it is impossible to determine either way.

 

[Dieselman]

What you have there is a still shot the bike at 1/250 of a second. Was this a monster wheelie or did the wheel momentarily lift at gear change? Without knowing which of the two it was, how can you possibly make those comments?

80 mph on a bike like this he could have just changed into second gear... and without being able to see the road ahead, none of us can say for sure whether that was a reasonable speed for the conditions or not.

I'm not trying to defend this chap but feel that there's an awful lot of assumptions based on very little evidence.

I thought he report said he was a habitual offender at this camera. If that is the case it seems unlikely that this was just a slight wheel lift, more like a deliberate wheeley, which he may have done a number of times previously.

He didn't recieve 39 points and a ban for a first offence, did he.

Edit:
Just checked.
A Southampton motorcyclist who was caught speeding seven times in one month, has received a ban, a fine and 39 points on his licence.
And that wheel is definately a bit high for an accidental lift.

 

[Sp!ke]

Point taken Dieselman.

But hand on heart do you not speed at least 7 times per month?

 

[Dieselman]

Point taken Dieselman.

But hand on heart do you not speed at least 7 times per month?

Not at between 74 and 83mph past 30mph limit cameras. And I can't do wheeleys, but if I could I wouldn't do them past cameras. Would you.?

This guy is a habitual reckless speeder and was CAUGHT seven times, not sped seven times.
He was relying on bikes not having front number plates.

 

[Sp!ke]

So you're a habitual speeder too then.

The only difference is you're not foolish enough to deliberately do it in front of a camera.

 

[UnMarked]

You have first hand knowledge of 80mph wheelies or is this mere speculation unmarked?

What you have there is a still shot the bike at 1/250 of a second. Was this a monster wheelie or did the wheel momentarily lift at gear change? Without knowing which of the two it was, how can you possibly make those comments?

80 mph on a bike like this he could have just changed into second gear... and without being able to see the road ahead, none of us can say for sure whether that was a reasonable speed for the conditions or not.

I'm not trying to defend this chap but feel that there's an awful lot of assumptions based on very little evidence.

Just as you can assume the extreme danger, I can also be that it was safe as from the evidence in the OP's links it is impossible to determine either way.

I have seen motorcyclists pulling wheelies plenty of times - including at speeds quicker than 80mph (where I work we have a real problem with a minority of motorcyclists and their disregard of the rules of the road - but that's food for another thread methinks) so I'm not speculating about the dangers of this type of riding and rider. However, seeing as I do not have any first-hand details of this particular case and rider I was speculating on his riding on the information in the first thread - that's all.

I accept that a front wheel can 'lift' under harsh throttle, but there's no reason why it should in this instance (30mph road) is there? I accept you're not defending this idiot Sp!ke, and instead you're putting across an alternative point of view and that's how it should be; but I cannot for the life of me see how such a manoeuvre could ever be classed as 'safe' on a public road? I will need some convincing on this

 

[Dieselman]

So you're a habitual speeder too then.

The only difference is you're not foolish enough to deliberately do it in front of a camera.

No. I'm an occasional inadvertant and sometimes deliberate speeder.

 

[Dieselman]

I have seen motorcyclists pulling wheelies plenty of times - including at speeds quicker than 80mph (where I work we have a real problem with a minority of motorcyclists and their disregard of the rules of the road - but that's food for another thread the mortuary methinks)

 

[Doodle]

I know the speed cameras he was caught by, they are on the main dual carriageway through Bitterne. 30 does feel very slow on this road even in a car, but it runs through housing that exits directly onto it so it is justified. Ironically the average speed along here is more like 45, with people slowing down just for the cameras, but it's been that way for a good while without further attention (and also there's nowhere suitable for police to setup a speed trap)

Frankly, he's riding like a tit and gets all he deserves. It's a busy road in a populated area and while there's not a huge amount of pedestrian traffic there (or side roads in the immediate vicinity of the cameras), it's just plain dumb.

 

[glojo]

You have first hand knowledge of 80mph wheelies or is this mere speculation unmarked?

There is a time and a placve for everything, and I would suggest that on a public road where there is a 30mph speed limit then if any idiot wnts to drive or ride at 80mph then they do so knowing they are breaking the law and perhaps they should be man enough to accept the consequences of their actions.

I once followed a vehicle and saw a child run out from between two parked cars, right into the path of this vehicle. The brake lkights came on at the same time as the collision..... We can NEVER, never react to any, or all hazards and speed limits are there to make our roads safer and hopefully reduce the chances of us being involved in any type of incident.

These limits are set by folks who specialise in road safety, they are not set by the police, traffic wardens or any other enforcement agency. They are there to protect us, our families, friends and all types of road users. The child that ran out into the path of the vehicle simply appeared. One second the road was clear, the next there was a child splattered across the windscreen of a car. I merely cite this example to illustrate the fact that we CANNOT see all, and every obstruction, or hazard. We can NEVER assume a busy urban road will be clear of all obstructions.

Travelling at 80mph on two wheels in a built up area is crazy, especially during daylight hours. Pulling wheelies is even more stupid. The rider made a choice and has now to accept the consequences of his actions.

The only assumption I am making is that this stretch of road was not cordoned off, it was not closed, and the public had access. If these assumptions are wrong then fair play, go for it.

30mph is the absolute LIMIT. It is NOT the recommended speed, it is not a speed we MUST adhere to. It is the maximum speed that is considered safe for that very specific area. I still maintain that as soon as a speed limit is exceeded by 100% then the driver\rider should be charged with dangerous driving\riding. It always used to be the case and now our roads are even busier then it still should.

Having had this ramble I am totally against the 70mph limit on our motorways. If it is there to conserve fuel, then fine, but if it is there for safety reasons then it is plain wrong and the sad fact is the government know this. It exceeds the 80% percentile which makes it a bad law.

The limits should be reviewed and the 60mph limit on country lanes is as silly as the 70mph limit on motorways for exactly the oppsite reasons.

regards
John the rambler

 

[Dieselman]

and while there's not a huge amount of pedestrian traffic there, it's just plain dumb.

Not a nice thing to say about the local pedestrian residents..

 

[Doodle]

Not a nice thing to say about the local pedestrian residents..

Lol.

 

[kwakdonut]

He was an idiot and got what he deserved - he should count himself lucky that he wasn't imprisoned too but then the prisons are too full.

As a biker I do not condone what he did - he knew what he was doing and yes, I'm sure most of us do 'make progress' (speed, for want of another phrase!) occasionally but this was a deliberate act of law-breaking.

He was a plonker full stop!!!

 

[Rovinghawk]

they should be man enough to accept the consequences of their actions.

This is where we agree.

These limits are set by folks who specialise in road safety

Crap. They are set by government via local councils pandering to the wishes of road safety fanatics, many of whom won't be happy until the man with the red flag walks in front of cars again.

they are not set by the police

Warwickshire police are actually totally against the recent suggested reductions in speed limits, but the council knows so much better.

30mph is the absolute LIMIT. It is NOT the recommended speed

If you read the Highway code or attend IAM training you'll find that it IS the recommended speed when safe to do so.

I still maintain that as soon as a speed limit is exceeded by 100% then the driver\rider should be charged with dangerous driving\riding.

Ah- rubber stamp 'justice' according to diktat rather than judgement and discretion; who needs thought and judgement?

RH

 

[Ted]

Not only does he deserve what he gets, but he NEEDS what he gets.

OK, so now I go into one on my life stories, but it is a true one.

About thirty years ago a young lad started at the garage where I worked. He was full of enthusiasm, and a genuinely nice lad. He was also a motorcyclist.
When he found out that I also rode a motorcycle he would ask me (being the older wiser 'biker' even then) all sorts of questions, mostly about getting more speed out of his bike, and 'fast' riding techniques. I gave him what advice I could,always tempering it with the best advice I could on safe riding, but I always felt that this fell on deaf ears.
One day he came past me riding like a total prat with literally no regard for his life or the life of others.
When I next saw him I really laid into him telling him that I didn't care if he wanted to kill himself, but the way he was riding he would take someone out with him - we never spoke again.
I heard a few months later rthat he had killed himself - head on into an army truck at Kineton. You know I haven't shed a tear to this day.
Riding/driving or whatever on our roads can be fantastic fun but it is also a serious business, and we should never lose sight of the fact.
I don't care if that road is safe/unsafe or whether the speed limit is appropriate/inappropriate or whether he was pulling full wheelies or the front wheel was just skipping the ground - it's clear that his riding technique leaves a huge amount to be desired - get him off the road until he stops being a danger to himself and others.

Oh and let me add yet another one of my sayings
"If you want to live life on the knife edge don't be surprised when you fall off"

rant over - apologies.

 

[Sp!ke]

On the flip side, often people think I ride like a loon and have done for over 20 years.

I recon I'm pretty safe, its the rest of them that scare me.