New E Class more details

[gary350]

I stole this from another forum gives alot more info and pics of the new E.

gary

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cf...edes/new-generation-mercedes-e-class-in-depth

 

[Diapason]

Adaptive Brakes - what more do they do?

This may well be a red rag to a herd of bulls but.......

Amongst the many many improvements cited in the article are the quoted paragraphs below that describe the new Adaptive Brake technology. Now reading through this text, I can't see one single thing that the current SBC system doesn't do, and I know that Glojo will mention that his car does even more - ie SBC stop too!

I absolutely love the SBC system, and really don't mind at all the muted noise which comes periodically, in fact it sort of gives you a bit of a reassuring reminder that you have very high-tech brakes.

Anyway, I'm left wondering what the real differences are. I'm left with the assumption, which Mercedes probably wouldn't want to say in a press release, that the Adaptive Braking has a different fail safe mode, but I don't know anything about it. So, does anyone actually know any more about what differentiates Adaptive Braking from SBC?

Anyway, I quote from the article from worldcarfans.com which Gary350 helpfully found:

"ADAPTIVE BRAKE is technology from the Mercedes-Benz flagship models which is now entering the E-Class. Electronic control enables the hydraulic, dual-circuit braking system to provide support functions which further improve safety and comfort. These include priming of the braking system in critical situations: the braking system interprets rapid removal of the driver’s foot from the accelerator as an emergency braking situation. In this case ADAPTIVE BRAKE increases the pressure in the brake lines and brings the brake linings into light contact with the brake discs, so that they are then able to bite immediately and with full force when the brake pedal is depressed. In this way the system supports the functions of Brake Assist.

ADAPTIVE BRAKE also improves safety in wet conditions: in the wet, the technology applies regular, brief braking impulses to wipe the film of water from the brake discs and ensure that the brakes are able to perform at their peak. The automatic brake drying function is always activated when the windscreen wipers of the E-Class have been operating for a certain time. The driver does not notice the finely metered braking impulses.

Once the E-Class has been braked to a stop, simply keeping the brake pedal depressed for a short time activates this function. The S-Class is then held in position by the brake – even when the driver removes his foot from the brake pedal. In this way the HOLD function prevents the vehicle from rolling forward unintentionally at traffic lights or in stop-and-go traffic. The holding function is switched off automatically when the car moves off again."

Enquiring minds want to know.......

Please enlighten me.

All the best,

Simon

 

[SL Boy]

The new system probably doesnt do anything more than its predecessor, the Mercedes SBC brake system. However as SBC was responsible for more recalls than anything else in the history of the company it had to go.

 

[CWW]

Here is my impression of the redesigned rear lights:

 

[Diapason]

Adaptive Brakes - what more do they do?

I agree, but it strikes me as stretching the truth a little to claim a whole load of 'new' functionality when really, in truth, what is new is not WHAT it does, but HOW it does it. And they don't say anything about that! That was really my point.

Having spent a little time studying how SBC works - there are some great on-line tutorials for US technicians - I have come to appreciate the ingenuity behind its design which makes possible all the 'apply brake by wire' functions (including distronic braking, SBC hold, drying etc) which are additional to the 'release brake by wire' functions (ABS etc that we're all been used to in previous systems). But I guess the number one flaw is the fact that the fail-safe mode cuts the braking power fairly dramatically. So, I suppose what we'd all like to know is simply - does the new system achieve all the above but without this flaw? And if so, I really would like to know how it does it.

If this is the case, then wouldn't it have been more appropriate for Mercedes to have said that the key improvement of Adaptive Braking over the previous system is that it can deliver braking power of 100% if the control electronics fail, rather than to claim as being newly introduced a whole load of things that SBC has done for years. That seems possibly just a little economical in the truth department to me.

What do others think?

Simon

 

[gary350]

Here is my impression of the redesigned rear lights:

I sort of like the pic of the rear lights taken from the link.

gary

 

[KillerHERTZ]

I like the fact it has the blue Merc logo on the grill, like the new S-Class...

A possible w202 mod?

 

[mbc230k]

Based on details 200K and 220CDI will only be manual g'boxes and the Avantgard has come down from part leather to part Artico. Progress??

 

[996jimbo]

For those of us who don't have an E class - what's the difference with the current ones?

 

[Howard]

I like the fact it has the blue Merc logo on the grill, like the new S-Class...

Just like the old skool ......

Took my blue logo off the other day to fit the new grille, my how it has faded .... must order a new one ..

 

[Dieselman]

I agree, but it strikes me as stretching the truth a little to claim a whole load of 'new' functionality when really, in truth, what is new is not WHAT it does, but HOW it does it. And they don't say anything about that! That was really my point.

Having spent a little time studying how SBC works - there are some great on-line tutorials for US technicians - I have come to appreciate the ingenuity behind its design which makes possible all the 'apply brake by wire' functions (including distronic braking, SBC hold, drying etc) which are additional to the 'release brake by wire' functions (ABS etc that we're all been used to in previous systems). But I guess the number one flaw is the fact that the fail-safe mode cuts the braking power fairly dramatically. So, I suppose what we'd all like to know is simply - does the new system achieve all the above but without this flaw? And if so, I really would like to know how it does it.

If this is the case, then wouldn't it have been more appropriate for Mercedes to have said that the key improvement of Adaptive Braking over the previous system is that it can deliver braking power of 100% if the control electronics fail, rather than to claim as being newly introduced a whole load of things that SBC has done for years. That seems possibly just a little economical in the truth department to me.

What do others think?

Simon

My understanding is that the adaptive braking system has gone back to using a servo to apply pressure to the braking system.
The whole problem with SBC is that if the pressure pump fails for any reason, the driver only has unassisted braking, which is inadequate in a heavy car.

Basically the SBC system is a conventional ABS/EBD system that used the high pressure pump for all braking applications not just when ABS or EBD is required.
The servo is deleted as it isn't required and in turn reduces system cost.

The adaptive system uses the pump only when required and can use the valve block for HOLD function so the pump isn't required for that function at all.
This in turn improves system reliability and there is no reduction of braking force due to pump failure.

 

[Diapason]

My understanding is that the adaptive braking system has gone back to using a servo to apply pressure to the braking system.
The whole problem with SBC is that if the pressure pump fails for any reason, the driver only has unassisted braking, which is inadequate in a heavy car.

Basically the SBC system is a conventional ABS/EBD system that used the high pressure pump for all braking applications not just when ABS or EBD is required.
The servo is deleted as it isn't required and in turn reduces system cost.

The adaptive system uses the pump only when required and can use the valve block for HOLD function so the pump isn't required for that function at all.
This in turn improves system reliability and there is no reduction of braking force due to pump failure.

Dieselman,

Many thanks to you for this very helpful reply, which makes sense to me. I must admit, I had assumed that the high pressure pump was vital to the advanced (what I would describe as asymetric) functionality - ie those things that work differently on each wheel. Am I right in supposing that it all comes down to whether the electronics and pump regulate the pressure down from the foot/servo force or whether it generates the pressure itself? Is that a fair statement?

I have an new E320 CDI with SBC, and when I ordered it at the end of last year I was aware of the 'history' of the system which - I believe - has stabilised in recent months. Previously, I had a W123 and then a W124. The W123 suffered two master cylinder faults, so I'm not deluded as to the possibility that other - more ordinary - systems can suffer failure too.

I am very grateful to you for addressing the issue in my post which was asking 'how' the new adaptive system differs to SBC, and perhaps to redress the journalists 'spin' that suggests that all the functionality is new - nothing of the sort! Have you seen any diagrams of the Adaptive System that you can reproduce? I'd be really interested to see something if you do.

Many thanks again,

Simon

 

[Dieselman]

Dieselman,

Many thanks to you for this very helpful reply, which makes sense to me. I must admit, I had assumed that the high pressure pump was vital to the advanced (what I would describe as asymetric) functionality - ie those things that work differently on each wheel. Am I right in supposing that it all comes down to whether the electronics and pump regulate the pressure down from the foot/servo force or whether it generates the pressure itself? Is that a fair statement?

The pump is required when different pressures are required at the wheels or for abs operation. The pump pressurises the fluid and the valve block regulates the flow to and from the wheels, hence the pulsing felt at the pedal. This is just how a standard four channel ABS system operates anyway.
Remember many cars have traction control and ebd without having SBC.
The superior features of the SBC system is purely electronic functionality but uses the pump to create all the assited pressure.

For the hold function the pump is not required to pressurise the system as the driver can create adequate pressure which is then held at the wheels by the valve body closing the flow and return valves.

 

[SL Boy]

I am very grateful to you for addressing the issue in my post which was asking 'how' the new adaptive system differs to SBC, and perhaps to redress the journalists 'spin' that suggests that all the functionality is new - nothing of the sort! Have you seen any diagrams of the Adaptive System that you can reproduce? I'd be really interested to see something if you do.

Its not so much the journalist's spin as it was Mercedes' original announcements that talked about this "new" functionality. Their recent claim that the facelifted SL was a new model stretched the boundaries somewhat too.

 

[glojo]

What do others think?

Simon

I think that if the new system is an improvement on the excellent SBC braking system, then it should be welcomed. SLBoy is correct in saying there have been a number of recalls, I believe one of them was to inspect and if required replace the SBC Hydraulic unit. The other really important one was to simply check the location of the wiring harness, not good, but how does this compare to the debacle of the early A-class? I am NOT suggesting there was anything wrong with the A-class, I am merely suggesting the incident was far more serious than the SBC saga.

There will always be the odd dissatisfied customer, always, it can never be avoided, but if you look on this forum 99.9% of owners that have SBC love the system. 99.9% of all the complaints come from those that either do not own a vehicle with it, or.... they have had a test drive, or read articles; or even worse, know a friend who knows someone blah de blah.

What if.... something fails? Fair comment, what if's are the fuel of the doom and gloom merchant.

The American market is where you will find complaints about SBC and it has nothing to do with reliability, unfortunately a notable percentage find the system so different from the average US vehicle, and instead of complaining about the poor brakes of the home grown vehicle, they complain about SBC?

Is the face lift model better? All I will say is I am more than happy with my vehicle and will not be in the queue to by the new model. Has it got or can you order the same type seating as in our 2004 model??

Regarding TSB's then the SBC system is a saint compared to cell phone problems. Again the connection is the US market, they are the most vocal. Please do NOT think I am criticising Americans, they simply know what they want and complain if they are not satisfied. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Regards,
John

 

[GRAV888]

what if's are the fuel of the doom and gloom merchant./QUOTE]

My father in law says something like this, but it is more like:
If if's and and's made pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers and
if my auntie had bol**cks, she'd be my uncle

 

[glojo]

My father in law says something like this, but it is more like:
If if's and and's made pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers and
if my auntie had bol**cks, she'd be my uncle

That is certainly another way of putting it.

Hind sight is another of my pet hates. Has your excellent father-in-law got a hotty for that talent?

John

 

[Steve_Perry]

what if's are the fuel of the doom and gloom merchant.

My father in law says something like this, but it is more like:
If if's and and's made pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers and
if my auntie had bol**cks, she'd be my uncle

Sorry to go off topic for what is an excellent post about the new 'E' but where do these strange sayings come from? The one I know from a colleague's granny... "If 'if' was a donkey then we'd all have a ride".

Thanks for the link Gary, a great read.

S.

 

[Diapason]

Its not so much the journalist's spin as it was Mercedes' original announcements that talked about this "new" functionality. Their recent claim that the facelifted SL was a new model stretched the boundaries somewhat too.

I'm sure you're right here, in this type of article the journalists generally regurgitate what they're fed; but I do wish they remembered the last time they'd been told the same thing! What claims to 'new' functionality were made about the facelifted SL?

 

[Diapason]

I think that if the new system is an improvement on the excellent SBC braking system, then it should be welcomed.....

There will always be the odd dissatisfied customer, always, it can never be avoided, but if you look on this forum 99.9% of owners that have SBC love the system. 99.9% of all the complaints come from those that either do not own a vehicle with it, or.... they have had a test drive, or read articles; or even worse, know a friend who knows someone blah de blah.....

Is the face lift model better? All I will say is I am more than happy with my vehicle and will not be in the queue to by the new model. Has it got or can you order the same type seating as in our 2004 model??

Regards,
John

John,

Thanks for this. As you know I recently bought an E320 CDI estate and I am absolutely delighted with the SBC braking system.

If we were to look back over the years we'd find countless 'new fangled' developments on cars that attracted negative comments from the 'purists' of the day - I'd guess that power steering and electric windows did, for example - and which we now consider to be essential. I think that in the future electrically powered braking systems will be seen in the same light.

All the best,

Simon