New estate C180 CGI or C220 CDI

[Sheffmb]

Looking for some advice / opinions from the MB community.

Currently have a 2010 C180 CGI saloon as a lease car but will be changing soon and looking to buy an estate.

Want to get the 2011 facelift c class estate nearly new and would look to keep for at least 7-8 years.

Any views on C220 v C180 - performance and economy look great on the C220 but I keep reading lots of bad press on DPFs.

My annual mileage is around 9000 and my daily commute is short city centre stop / start traffic. Go further afield at weekends and longer motorway trips monthly on average - hence my concern on DPFs.

Any thoughts gratefully received.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

There seems to be a lot of bad press around DPF's, but as long as you 'open the cars legs' once a week you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[grober]

The diesel will be the better " load lugger" but unless you anticipate carrying very heavy loads the petrol is better for lots of short journeys. You are already familiar with the 180 CGI --- have a test drive of the 220 CDI -some folks can't stand the extra clatter of the diesel. You may also wish to consider the C200 Cdi with its simpler single turbo engine??

 

[Red C220]

At 9000 miles a year get the petrol.

We've had a 2009 C180K sport estate auto, it did 30 mpg all day long.

Our 2011 C220 cdi Auto does 40mpg all day long.

If you're not buying new, the difference in capital cost will cover any extra fuel you're ever likely to use.

We've had our car just over 6 months and we're approaching 8,000 miles in that time. I'd say we're about the break even point in cost/annual mileage.

We may do upwards of 20,000 miles depending where my wife needs to go for medical treatement, so we went diesel on that basis. Other wise I'd get a petrol again.

 

[Red C220]

Examples:-

Approved Used 2011 MERCEDES-BENZ C180 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY for sale

Approved Used 2011 MERCEDES-BENZ C220 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY for sale

 

[wemorgan]

£3k difference upfront....what will the difference be if the OP sells the car in 3 years time I wonder, when fuel will be nearer £2/litre? I'm not saying the C180 isn't the right choice, just interested in the numbers.

 

[DITTRICH]

At 10,000 miles per year, the CDI will save between £250 and £500 in fuel costs at current prices assuming the car performs at the stated mipg and £1.33 petrol and £1.41 diesel. A return after tax on an investment of between 8.4% and 17.9%. The diesel savings will be the most if the driving is in town where diesels score over petrol cars.
So given that you want a new car, the diesel would seem better.

 

[Sheffmb]

Will likely be getting an SĖ as we may struggle on our steep drive with the lower Sport version. Looking around I think the difference can be as low as 1k for that spec. A couple of c180s were up for 21k recently and there are now C220s at 21850 and 22k.

Will test drive the diesel to see what it sounds like - last diesel I had was a citroen zx so I assume they've improved.

 

[DITTRICH]

I should mention that I was comparing the two blueefficiency cars posted by Red c220

 

[Sheffmb]

Sure no problem - thanks for the advice.

 

[gIzzE]

The diesel savings will be the most if the driving is in town where diesels score over petrol cars.

I completely disagree with this.

I have always found the diesels start to make sense when you do longer runs.
Around 10 miles is where they tend to start to break ahead with any meaningful numbers.

I have often found that the diesel equivalent is hardly any better then the petrol version round town, and in the winter sometimes very slightly worse.


I say just buy the one you prefer, there are loads more people looking for diesels when you come to resell, but the amount of petrols available are in even shorter supply for those looking for a petrol.
I really wanted an E350 petrol, but after 6 months looking gave up and bought an E320cdi, awesome car that I have loved, but the petrols that did come up sold in hours rather than days or weeks like the diesels.

 

[DITTRICH]

I completely disagree with this. .

I had the loan of a B class cdi for pootling around recently and compared to my petrol engined c230k. Same London journeys 18mpg w202 c230k vs 30mpg w??? B class. So in my case, the direct comparison was diesel +50% more fuel efficient. Assuming the compared cars perform / under perform compared to manufacturer figures by roughly the same amount, the comparison is still therefore valid. I am only going on what I experienced.

 

[gIzzE]

I am comparing like with like though.

143bhp 318i vs 150bhp 320d
250bhp 3.2fsi A6 vs 230bhp 245bhp A6
E350 vs e320cdi


The C230k was not exactly the most economical car out there, but does have 190bhp, while the B180cdi was set up for decent economy if a little sluggish with only 109bhp.

Compare the latest B Class diesel and petrol though, the gap is not as big as you may think.

 

[DITTRICH]

Well how do we account for the fact then that my w202 c230k pootling about is around 20mpg and the s124 e300d estate does the same journeys at 30mpg including trying to get through the Blackwall tunnel at the "wrong" times - in London with a mixture of very short communtes and longer school and shopping runs.
My view is that in stop start driving with almost "constant" changes in speeds all of which are below 30-40mph then the diesels with their lower revs and superior torque at low revs win hands down against petrol engines.

 

[gIzzE]

Well my E320 petrol used to get around 25mpg pootling around town, the E320cdi gets around 29mpg doing the same.
In winter doing the 10 miles into town the E320 used to show 26mpg by the time it arrived and the cdi shows about the same.

I used to get 65mpg out of my old 1.9tdi 90bhp A4 on a run and never dropped below 50mpg over a tank, which are figures that I would be overjoyed with today on my 2 litre manual 2010 BMW, which does have better official figures than the old Audi.
At the same time I could never get more than 25mpg from the 528i that replaced it.

Move on to today and the current A4 with 180bhp is giving about 40mpg average with disappointed owners and the latest 528i is returning mid thirties with owners well chuffed.

I am not saying all cars are like this, but I do think people need to simply take both out and try them, doing the driving that they are going to do, teh differences may be small, they may be huge and you may just end up surprised.
But you do need to try them.

I bought a 18d manual to be sensible, however, since found out the 20d auto would have been far better for me, as I like to sit at 75mph doing my miles, the 20d auto is showing 55mpg doing this where as the 18d manual is showing only 44mpg.
Same engine, same car but different gearing.

You can always pick two cars where one shows big differences to the other, but that doesn't mean that you can say 'all diesels will always be much better in all situations' imho.

 

[grober]

I had the loan of a B class cdi for pootling around recently and compared to my petrol engined c230k. Same London journeys 18mpg w202 c230k vs 30mpg w??? B class. So in my case, the direct comparison was diesel +50% more fuel efficient. Assuming the compared cars perform / under perform compared to manufacturer figures by roughly the same amount, the comparison is still therefore valid. I am only going on what I experienced.

Too much of a generation difference to make a valid comparison I 'm afraid. Factor in autotransmission lock up/gear nos , indirect petrol injection, supercharging V turbo charging [ lower thermal efficiency] low rolling resistance tyres, body weight reduction and the vast difference is easily explained.
Although petrol engines are always going to lag behind diesel the modern turbocharged direct petrol injection engines are far more fuel efficient than their predecessors. Factor in the extra duty on derv and the hassles with glowplugs,injectors DPF's and petrol models lower initial purchase price and petrol as a fuel begins to make a more sensible choice for the low mileage private motorist.

 

[Frugal]

Too much of a generation difference to make a valid comparison I 'm afraid. Factor in autotransmission lock up/gear nos , indirect petrol injection, supercharging V turbo charging [ lower thermal efficiency] low rolling resistance tyres, body weight reduction and the vast difference is easily explained.
Although petrol engines are always going to lag behind diesel the modern turbocharged direct petrol injection engines are far more fuel efficient than their predecessors. Factor in the extra duty on derv and the hassles with glowplugs,injectors DPF's and petrol models lower initial purchase price and petrol as a fuel begins to make a more sensible choice for the low mileage private motorist.

I agree, so many different factors to consider, including road tax which will be cheaper on the deisel. Horses for courses.