New Mercedes en France...

[Lazarus]

Hi Everyone,

Firstly sorry for not being around much recently, but I'm in the process of temporarily relocating to Zurich, which is taking up a lot of my time right now...

...Just thought I'd tell you about a few of the cars I saw this weekend in and around Reims and Epernay.

We took Mrs. Lazarus's new (to us) A-Class, and as I did most of the driving, I have to say how impressed I was with it, what a great little car.

If you've not used them, I'd definitely recommend the Norfolk Line Dover to Dunkurque route, takes a little longer than the Dover to Calais run, but is significantly cheaper...

Anyhow, whilst out and about we saw several of the new Mercedes line up, including a B-Class B200 turbo, which I really liked - it'll be interesting to see what AMG or Brabus do with this model as it looked really agressive in black...

I also saw a new S-Class, and had a chance to have a nose around it close up, at first I wasn't overly keen on the new styling, but in silver with a black leather interior it looked rather nice... I'm not sure of the engine size, but guess it was a diesel, after all, I was in France

The final encounter was with a Belgian plated E400 CDI that tore past me on the Autoroute like I was standing still (I was doing about 150kph) - does anyone have any details of the 400 diesel powerplant?

 

[jeremytaylor]

I think it's a V8, but not made in RHD

 

[PJH]

Figures for ..... S400 CDI. Usi ng a 3996cc V8 powerplant, it develops 250 horsepower at 4000 rpm and an astounding 413 lb-ft of torque at 1700 rpm. The engine is a 32-valve unit and uses VNT (variable nozzle turbine) twin-turbochargers.

http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/column/sedans3_dieselux.html

Edit:- E400 CDi road test

Lots of figures from HonestJohn

 

[Lazarus]

I wonder why we don't get that bad boy over here then?

I'dve thought that they'd shift loads of them

 

[jeremytaylor]

I don't think it's because of RHD conversion difficulties, I think it's because DCUK didn't think there would be much demand, but with VAG selling their V10TDI in the Toerag and A8, hopefully they might change their mind soon?

DC Insider, are you listening?

 

[PJH]

I don't think it's because of RHD conversion difficulties, I think it's because DCUK didn't think there would be much demand, but with VAG selling their V10TDI in the Toerag and A8, hopefully they might change their mind soon?

DC Insider, are you listening?

Yes, probably another steering column/turbo-charger conflict, like W124s.
But then, as it's a V8, surely there would be the same problem either way round.

 

[Lazarus]

I don't think it's because of RHD conversion difficulties, I think it's because DCUK didn't think there would be much demand, but with VAG selling their V10TDI in the Toerag and A8, hopefully they might change their mind soon?

DC Insider, are you listening?

To my mind it would've made more sense to offer the S-Class with this powerplant, as BMW wouldn't have anything to match it, as the 730d is the same powerplant as the 535d?

 

[DC_insider]

I don't think it's because of RHD conversion difficulties, I think it's because DCUK didn't think there would be much demand, but with VAG selling their V10TDI in the Toerag and A8, hopefully they might change their mind soon?

DC Insider, are you listening?

I'm here

I don't know the full reason for the reluctance to bring the V8 diesel to the UK. My guess is that it is thought to have limited opportunity as the UK tax system means that it has no advantage over a petrol model - there is an upper limit for emissions over which the tax rate stays the same. For example, the Audi A8 4.2 V8 TDi is taxed as highly as the 4.2 V8 petrol so the only advantage is in economy.

However, it could be argued that the VW V10 TDi Touareg and the Audi A8 V8 TDi provide a 'Halo' effect that attracts positive press reports which outweigh the limited sales success.

Then again maybe it simply couldn't be converted to RHD.


All is not lost, however, as the new V8 TDi (with 315bhp) will be coming to the UK later this year. The engine will be available in the forthcoming ML420CDi and the GL420CDi.

Will we see this engine in the E420CDi and S420CDi in the future?

Unfortunately I don't know. I hope that we will but I haven't seen anything positive on this.

 

[ShanSL350]

I was told last year by a fairly well placed Dealership Principal that this very subject was discussed by Dealers and MB in some detail. Especially in respect of the New ML's and the S Class

Apparently the reluctance is to do with the fact that the power, performance and economy of the larger 400 CDi engine would effectively kill the sales of the larger petrol models and if you look at MB pricing they make their money from the larger engine models.

As i say this is just what i was told.....

It will be interesting to see how the sales of the new 420CDi goes???

 

[Dieselman]

I'm here


All is not lost, however, as the new V8 TDi (with 315bhp) will be coming to the UK later this year. The engine will be available in the forthcoming ML420CDi and the GL420CDi.

At last some decent outputs. This should be really good for dragging BMWs from the line...probably literally.

 

[Dieselman]

I was told last year by a fairly well placed Dealership Principal that this very subject was discussed by Dealers and MB in some detail. Especially in respect of the New ML's and the S Class

Apparently the reluctance is to do with the fact that the power, performance and economy of the larger 400 CDi engine would effectively kill the sales of the larger petrol models and if you look at MB pricing they make their money from the larger engine models.

As i say this is just what i was told.....

It will be interesting to see how the sales of the new 420CDi goes???

Probably true.

It's like Porsche protecting the 911.

 

[Subyland]

Will we see this engine in the E420CDi in the future?

The E420CDI is already announced for the 3rd quarter in LHD form so hopefully....

 

[DC_insider]

The E420CDI is already announced for the 3rd quarter in LHD form so hopefully....

I'm not sure what you mean - the E420CDi was unveiled almost a year ago and has been on sale in LHD for over 6 months.

 

[glojo]

I'm trying to get my head around te reasons why not???

Tax??? No idea as I'm not a business person, but I cannot see that as being a major issue.

The big V8 would definitely effect sales of the petrol V8, but I doubt it would unduly effect AMG sales.

Look at the 'old' 320 petrol V6. How many petrol 320 211's are there in the UK compared to its 320CDI counterpart? Has it effected sales of the petrol? I say yes of course, but I am certain that more diesels have been sold simply because of the excellent performance and economy figures. The large petrol V8 is unpopular because of the poor economy when compared to the modern diesel engine, the powerful V8 would be a 'must have' for those that want more power for the pound?

I would imagine that if and when the diesel V8 is imported there will be a slight drop in sales of the 320CDI, but sales of the big diesel would far, far out weigh the petrol equivalent.

The 320CDI S-class is a popular choice, but I wonder what customers would choose given the option of a more powerful diesel?

Before making a fool of myself and talk about a RHD derivative, I always check to see if any other RHD country is importing this engine? It is usually a resounding no! As is the 4Matic issue.

Regards,
John