Older better than new Mercedes?

[MikeInWimbledon]

NIt's worth noting that newer "often" means "less worn out," but not always.

Folks often complain about older cars because they are worn and poorly maintained.

Newer cars are a more expensive, which compromises their value for money, even when maintenance is taken into account.

Some worry, rightly or wrongly, about the reliability of older vehicles.

Elegance varies from generation to generation. Beauty can be is the eye of the beholder of the S123, S124, S210, S211, S212 and S213. (My wife is on her 5th 2003 MX5 NB and thinks the newer ones aren't as elegant.)

As one of life's pleasures, motors, of any age, are an engineering miracle and cheaper than cigarettes, alcohol and wild women.

And you can't take money with you.

 

[Benz17]

What other gadgets would/could be introduced to cars say in 15 years time, pretty hard to see further improvements to what already is out there, not talking about driverless options, but tech.

 

[Stratman]

'Older better than new Mercedes?'

I believe this was first said when the second Merc rolled out of the shed.

 

[Red C220]

I'm a big fan of restomods. Old style, modern relaibility, performance, safelty and comfort.

Comes at a cost though unless you're good with spanners and have the inclination.

I always fancied a 560SEC with the underpinnings of a 212 E63. It would be a £100K car to be done even close to properly though.

 

[BigEyd]

I think the same can be said for most cars though.

100% you can have certain models of different makes which are way better, the tech isn't there but they do seem better.....until the cold weather/black ice/hot weather comes into play.

 

[Darrell]

I'm a big fan of restomods. Old style, modern relaibility, performance, safelty and comfort.

Comes at a cost though unless you're good with spanners and have the inclination.

I always fancied a 560SEC with the underpinnings of a 212 E63. It would be a £100K car to be done even close to properly though.

This floats my boat.

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[BigJase88]

What other gadgets would/could be introduced to cars say in 15 years time, pretty hard to see further improvements to what already is out there, not talking about driverless options, but tech.

Nothing car tech is getting worse

Lane departure
Start stop systems
Some cars to have speed limiters [EU]


Soon probably won't be allowed to drive at all by yourself

 

[Red C220]

This floats my boat.

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I can see why that would be appealing.

I'm more into keeping it almost standard visually but updating everthing underneath. Not as extreme as Singer or Eagle E-Types at £500k a piece.

More like KWE with Jaguars or Jenson Interceptor R that kind of thing.

Also a big fan of retropower. Retropower

From what I can see that's the closest thing we have to a Kindig Customs in the UK.

Or if you're into Datsun Z's how about this company. MZR Roadsports

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

What other gadgets would/could be introduced to cars say in 15 years time, pretty hard to see further improvements to what already is out there, not talking about driverless options, but tech.

The things to be introduced to all cars in 2037 (15 years time) are the things they're introducing to the S class in 2030.

 

[Benz17]

Nothing car tech is getting worse

Lane departure
Start stop systems
Some cars to have speed limiters [EU]


Soon probably won't be allowed to drive at all by yourself

Can’t comment on lane departure, as I don’t have that in my current car.

Agreed with stop start, disable that as soon as I get in mine.

I Like the reverse and 360 camera, dipping passenger mirror, keyless open and start, multi beam headlights, Bluetooth phone capability, opening the boot with my foot, opening of all windows and roof with one touch on remote key, speed limit warning, automatic braking facilities, auto hold, also like the high resolution digital screen, and voice comand has its uses. Self parking have used on the odd occasions, but still better doing it my self.

The above are all options on my car which I find extremely useful, yes a few are old, had on my w211, am also sure there are other options, like massaging seats, which I don’t have or are on newer cars which I could also find useful, and some not so.

There is not much increase or innovation in tech from 1 year to the next on an existing model, but a increase from one model to the next one does see some things new.

 

[Benz17]

The things to be introduced to all cars in 2037 (15 years time) are the things they're introducing to the S class in 2030.

If I am still around, can’t wait to see what other tech/innovations they can introduce, that we don’t have already.

It’s a bit like the current mobile phones, apart from resolution and processor speed, there is nothing that much difference compared to phones from a few years back.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Define better?!.......in any measurable way the new models are better than the old ones....but that's the same of any brand of car. Tech and manufacturing processes have moved on. Even an average car is quieter, faster, more efficient, more rust resistant and better handling than we could have ever dreamt of even when I first started driving (1985). Styling is a personal taste....so I'll ignore that for now.
But imo the feel of modern cars it's not as good as ones of 30 years ago. They are generally heavier due to safety equipment, crash protection and gadgets no one really needs. This makes them feel less responsive and less alive....this feeling is made worse by over assisted steering and worse still electric (as against hydraulic) assisted steering....the work of the devil imo!
I used to have a Mk 2 Golf GTI when they were current....no electric anything or even power steering. ANY modern Merc is better than that car in any way you could test.....it was stiff and quite noisy too. But so much more fun than the sanitised cars of today. Sure it was a bit heavy at slow speed....but that steering was alive with feedback above 20.....and could push that car to the point of howling tyres and you knew exact when she was going to let go. Modern cars are just a bit too sterile in most cases....at least for my old school tastes. My favourite modern(ish) Merc is the w212 FL.....fresh enough to look relatively modern but old enough to still have a few sharp lines and look like a proper car. Not that I could afford one but even if I could I'm not really a fan of the soft edged styling of the latest E class (or even the C)...they look like Merc designed a nice car...then accidentally left it in front of the fire so the corners melted a bit and it sagged both ends!....as least in the basic specs. It's nice to see that the car styling world is slowly moving back to car shapes with more edges....so much nicer than blobs (to me the EQS is the epitome everything I don't like in modern car design.....no sharp lines). Also, with one or two exceptions, sharper edged cars don't seem to age as fast as their rounded cousins.
Each to their own though.

 

[Dryce]

Define better?!.......in any measurable way the new models are better than the old ones....but that's the same of any brand of car.

I'm going to disagree with you. Only on some measures are the newer cars better.

The older E class had smoother V6 petrol options and the W211 had SBC.

While I appreciate modern electronic dash displays I still think that in terms of simple usable clarity the displays and steering controls of the 2000s generation cars were better.

The real kicker though? Cruise control stalk. MB had this nailed prefectly and then threw it away for something inferior taht emulated their competition.

And BMW similarly messed up dropping 6 cylinder petrol engines from the intermediate level cars. And their electric power steering in the last couple of genertions of car is a step back in feel.

And then we have the curse of large alloys and low profile tyres which undermine the noise and ride comfort and economy .... a style over actual function choice by the market with which the market and customers curse themselves.

 

[ALFAitalia]

If agree with all that...except the tyres bit!...Modern low profile rubber gives you turn in and control that big old balloon tyres just can't compete with. You just need to match the suspension to suit. If you are referring to wheel damage....well that's Mercedes fault for fitting such weak wheels (Audi did the same on RS models for a while....but unlike Merc did something about it). Unless the actual alloy hits the road or kerb a pot hole should no be able to bend an alloy unless it's crater sized. Looking where you are going helps...these pot holes are not invisible. I'm not claiming to be a brilliant driver but 39 years of riding bikes makes you much more aware of the road surface, where a big hole can have you off.......I've never bent an alloy in all those years (scraped a few on kerb mind with careless parking!)....not even the really low profile wheel AMG wheel tyre combo that came on my W209. Cosmetically, bigger sidewall tyres just look wrong these days and really date a car imo....especially a bigger saloon...E class and up size. They won't affect economy either unless you either change the rolling radius (which you shouldn't with correct tyre size choice to maintain factory diameter ) it unless you choose heavy alloys. With modern wheels the extra weight of the metal in bigger wheels is offset by the lighter tyres from having shorter sidewalls . I have a set of 19s and the factory 17s on my ALFA (both sets genuine ALFA)....they weigh within grams of each other. Again it's personal taste.

 

[Londonscottish]

And the E is I think the best large saloon out there.

I've always thought the E represents something of a sweet spot in the MB range. It straddles the mass-market that the smaller models represent and the tech fest of the larger/more luxurious/exclusive range.

As a baseline, it always has to be tough as old boots to survive 400,000km of German taxi use but it also has to have decent refinement and enough toys to keep people happy - I get the impression that a LOT of R&D goes into the E and the tech tends to get bugs ironed out on the S first which is why E's are generally very dependable.

In terms of "which one" I like them all from the 123 on. I've owned a 211 and a 212 and have driven 124's, 210's and, recently a 213. They all have a charm about them and an effortless way of going about things. Styling's always going to be subjective but I think they all look good for different reasons. For some, I happen to prefer the styling of the contemporary 5 Series but that's not enough in isolation to tempt me away for a formula that I've always liked and with which I'm very familiar.

 

[Londonscottish]

Define better?!.......in any measurable way the new models are better than the old ones....but that's the same of any brand of car.

I'm not entirely sure that's still the case. I've driven my mate's 213 and I struggle to find anything "better" in the way it stops, starts and goes. The only thing that really stands out is the widescreen dash on the newer car which I really like - I went for Aldi version by converting the COMAND screen to Android. That has thoroughly modernised the experience in the cabin.

Other that that I've still got the heated/cooled seats, adaptive suspension, Distronic, blind spot assist, ILS etc etc that make these sorts of cars so effortless to drive. A lot of that tech is mass market now anyway. So I think all we're getting now are marginal improvements in terms of the basic construction when we go from one get of E to the next. Certainly not the leap from the 123 to the 124, for example.

 

[BigJase88]

If agree with all that...except the tyres bit!...Modern low profile rubber gives you turn in and control that big old balloon tyres just can't compete with. You just need to match the suspension to suit. If you are referring to wheel damage....well that's Mercedes fault for fitting such weak wheels (Audi did the same on RS models for a while....but unlike Merc did something about it). Unless the actual alloy hits the road or kerb a pot hole should no be able to bend an alloy unless it's crater sized. Looking where you are going helps...these pot holes are not invisible. I'm not claiming to be a brilliant driver but 39 years of riding bikes makes you much more aware of the road surface, where a big hole can have you off.......I've never bent an alloy in all those years (scraped a few on kerb mind with careless parking!)....not even the really low profile wheel AMG wheel tyre combo that came on my W209. Cosmetically, bigger sidewall tyres just look wrong these days and really date a car imo....especially a bigger saloon...E class and up size. They won't affect economy either unless you either change the rolling radius (which you shouldn't with correct tyre size choice to maintain factory diameter ) it unless you choose heavy alloys. With modern wheels the extra weight of the metal in bigger wheels is offset by the lighter tyres from having shorter sidewalls . I have a set of 19s and the factory 17s on my ALFA (both sets genuine ALFA)....they weigh within grams of each other. Again it's personal taste.

I would tend to disagree with that.

I have bent 2 wheels in my time. Living in Dumfries and Galloway does not help as it is the pothole capital of the UK.

I did this one on a b road. The pothole was full of water and a wagon was coming the other way so had nowhere to go. Not my fault at all and that was only at around 50mph.

I also bent another again the pothole was filled with water leaving a motorist with no chance. As it also rains most days in Scotland what you meant to do. Avoid all puddles just incase a pothole lies below one

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If I am still around, can’t wait to see what other tech/innovations they can introduce, that we don’t have already.

It’s a bit like the current mobile phones, apart from resolution and processor speed, there is nothing that much difference compared to phones from a few years back.

Curious. My iPhone 12 has more processing power than all the computers in Europe when I started programming at IBM Hursley, and certainly does a lot of things that were unimaginable back then.

How many TikTok and instagram users are there now? None of that existed a few years back. We take real time traffic flow GPS for granted now, sometimes integrated into CarPlay. Online retail is common as muck now, both for shoppers and delivery agents, and your device knows and anticipates your habits, Tablets were a minor novelty a decade ago, yet now these data consumption devices are right across the corporate landscape, from CEO to gopher. All integrated to corporate databases, seamlessly using data on the cloud, anywhere, backed up and updated automatically. And of course gaming has long overtaken the movie industry in value, while advertising has almost destroyed print advertising.

 

[Larkone]

The good old ones are better than the bad new ones and the good new ones are better than the bad old ones

 

[Dryce]

Curious. My iPhone 12 has more processing power than all the computers in Europe when I started programming at IBM Hursley, and certainly does a lot of things that were unimaginable back then.

How many TikTok and instagram users are there now? None of that existed a few years back. We take real time traffic flow GPS for granted now, sometimes integrated into CarPlay. Online retail is common as muck now, both for shoppers and delivery agents, and your device knows and anticipates your habits, Tablets were a minor novelty a decade ago, yet now these data consumption devices are right across the corporate landscape, from CEO to gopher. All integrated to corporate databases, seamlessly using data on the cloud, anywhere, backed up and updated automatically. And of course gaming has long overtaken the movie industry in value, while advertising has almost destroyed print advertising.

Well when I look at a modern online TV guide with a vast number of channels why is it so hard to find anything I want to watch.

I'd argue that it's the same with technology. Lots of stuff and options but how much actual benefit do you get from all these extra choices and options.

But then I view a dual zone aircon as being unwanted garnish (it wastes an extra dial and the need to push the sync option to make it work properly as a single zone setup).

One of the 'fun' aspects sometimes of getting into a MB rental car is figuring how to get the electronic dash back to some state of sensibility after the previous occupant has messed with it..

Or with the MB touch / swipe steering controls figuring what you accidentally did after accidentally brushing one of the little steering wheel touch buttons while on the motorway in busy traffic.

My luddite hankering after the W211 is that it just worked - and instead of the distracting electronic dash and multicoloured mood lighting garnish it had an advanced braking system that worked amazingly in association with the ESP - and this was just before the period where MB UK went all caveman with the alloy wheel options.