Peoples views on this.???

[Petrol Pete]

Thanks for the views guys, I appreciate them all, whether I agree with them or not.

@ Headhurts..

The plumber reference is not exactly the same though IMO, as the warranty is something not all offered to you by the supplying vendor. I'm not asking Nissan or Ford to look at my car, I@m asking Mercedes, who sold it to me. Now, yes, we can argue over franchises, or varying dealerships, and that they are not MB themselves, but I would argue that they ARE the face and point of contact to MB for us, the buying public. The problem (as I see it) with your suggestion of taking it back to the selling dealership is that it's not always convenient for people to do that. Besides, when you buy an AU MB from a franchised dealer, and, are told that any issues can be resolved by any other franchised dealer within the UK, I'd expect the terms and treatment to be reasonably consistent. Sadly, it isn't even close.
Finally, the fact that I've owned the car for nine months is irrelevant, because the warranty is for twelve months. Warranties do not become less valid the closer you get to the expiry date. That's not how warranties work.

@ Bobbydazzler...

My point about it either being or not being MB themselves applies here too. I@m afraid it "IS" the representative of MB themselves I am dealing with. If not a franchised dealer, then where do I go to get hold of MB.? The premise on which the warranty is offered and promoted with AU MB is one that suggests the car will be treated the same at ANY dealership nationwide.

After speaking with all three dealerships, I can categorically say that they will charge the fee.

It's all well and good to say "take to another dealership" but that somewhat defeats the implied service the warranty provides. It's also not exactly convenient to anyone who is surrounded by MB dealers of the same group, with alternative dealers being some distance beyond.

Anyhow, let's see what MB say today.

MB iCarsoft cost about £150, not the best solution for you but if you plan to stick with the car it might be money well spent. I like having mine as I can keep an eye on the car, which at 11 years old will never see a main MB dealership as long as I own it.

 

[Larkone]

My only contact with a main MB dealer was regarding a few pounds worth of spare parts for my rear brake callipers. Some of you might remember my past post on this subject "are these brakes stock".

Bottom line is the main MB dealer in Swindon insists the rear brake callipers on my C55 are 'aftermarket' and can not supply the brake pins and springs. The fact is I have purchased the kit from an independent company that markets them "ventilated rear" or similar, it proves they exist.

Members on this forum have checked their C55 AMG and confirmed they have the same callipers and I have trawled the net and found pictures of C55's with the same brakes.

But, guess what ? Mercedes Benz Swindon simply refuse to investigate (I:e help) further, I am wrong they are right so f%%k off and come back when you want to trade your C55 in for a C63s ,then we will lick your boots and blow smoke up your butt...until the cheque clears.

P.S if you have a C55 and are stupid enough to think of taking it to MB Swindon for rear brake pads..don't because they will have the pads and sensors (same as other W203 c class ,mysteriously ) but not the pins and spring plate because silly you modified your rear brakes when they weren't looking.

I wonder what else they don't know about their customers cars ?

BTW when checked on their database my car was 'known' to them. T055ERS.

Rant over, sorry to hi jack thread ..a bit

That'll teach to buy a car from a non MB approved parallel universe - the proper one is MB Spec 08976.555 after star date 2307.5

 

[BTB 500]

Last time I used Tier 1 I was warned that if the fault was not covered under warranty I'd have to pay for the diagnostic work. I can see the sense in this from the dealership POV - they are doing work, and if they can't claim it back from the warranty they need to recover the cost from somewhere. But I didn't need to pay up front ... that's a bit more annoying.

Have to say though that there was no problem with the work - the car was reporting an intermittent error on the driver's door mirror indicator, and they replaced the whole mirror assembly without any quibbling. This was a local dealership rather than the one who supplied the car.

 

[Notamused]

Ok, so I heard back from MB customer services today and this is what I was told.

Apparently, ANY vehicle is subject to the charge for diagnostics. From that, my understanding was that there was the possibility that a customer "could potentially" incur some charge to have an issue investigated, no matter how old that vehicle was. I asked if this would apply to a £70,000 car I'd bought "brand new" a month prior, and it seems yes, it does. He went on to say that "Obviously, if there is a genuine problem that needs resolving under warranty, then the fee is not payable and the remedial work is carried out at no cost to the customer."

I was a bit gobsmacked at that, but whatever.

So, I guess I am safe to assume that my own car will not get checked without me authorising this payment. This is extremely disappointing, as....

1 - The roof leak is clear to see without any diagnostics.
2 - The wiper issue is something that may, or may not be covered under warranty.. (who knows?)
3 - This inspection would be carried out at no cost at the dealer I bought the car from.

Now the argument that the dealer I bought from has more of an obligation to me is (or should be) a moot point. This is because the Tier one warranty is (as MB-UK customer services informed me) offered by Mercedes Benz themselves, and as such, should have the same conditions and level of service wherever your car is taken within the network. Sadly, this is clearly not how it works.

I have not as yet asked the dealer I bought from whether they would be willing to cover the cost of this diagnostic inspection, although I guess it's worth a go. If they are willing to do that, then all power to them and they would deserve some mighty credit for excellent service and backup of the product they sell. That in itself would go a long way to restoring some faith in the brand, although my overall impression of MB has nosedived and has left me feeling quite angry.

Ultimately, the wiper thing may only be a minor irritation, as after a short..ish spell, they do work. Still, there definitely is something not right there, because the delay on them activating when switched onto any choice of speed on the selector is ridiculous. 30 - 40 seconds or more.?..Really.?

The roof leak is tiny, I have to admit. However, it's not sealed as it was designed to seal and so is failing to do what it should. Who knows how much worse this could become, or, what the implications of that may be. The fact that the agent at my local dealer appeared to know exactly where the leak was, even without me telling him, exposed the fact that this is a common or well known fault. And yet, the seals aren't covered by the warranty.

This leads me to the conclusion that ANYONE considering buying a convertible MB under an Approved Used tier one warranty, needs to be well aware that if any leak occurs after purchase, they'll have to live with it or pay to get that fixed.

Thanks everyone for your views, opinions and experiences.

 

[Dryce]

Ok, so I heard back from MB customer services today and this is what I was told.

Apparently, ANY vehicle is subject to the charge for diagnostics. From that, my understanding was that there was the possibility that a customer "could potentially" incur some charge to have an issue investigated, no matter how old that vehicle was. I asked if this would apply to a £70,000 car I'd bought "brand new" a month prior, and it seems yes, it does. He went on to say that "Obviously, if there is a genuine problem that needs resolving under warranty, then the fee is not payable and the remedial work is carried out at no cost to the customer."

I was a bit gobsmacked at that, but whatever.

I downloaded their handbook and the relevant statements would appear to be:

4.5 How to make a warranty claim?
4.5.1 Making a warranty claim when in the UK
Contact your nearest authorised Mercedes-Benz
Retailer and advise them that your insured vehicle is
protected by the Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty.
The Mercedes-Benz Retailer will contact us regarding
claims on your behalf. It is your responsibility to
authorise any dismantling of the insured vehicle or
any other work required to diagnose any faults with
the insured vehicle.
We will only pay for diagnostic costs directly
associated with a valid claim for a defective
component under this insurance. If you are VAT
registered you remain responsible for settling the VAT
content of any claim separately.​

Now the bold part is the problem I think. Basically you have three parties - the customer, the dealer, and MB. The liability lies with the customer until MB decides the claim is valid. The dealer is in the middle - wary that they are the ones who will get stiffed by both sides if the claim doesn't go through. The rather high dealer charges for a basic diagnostic are just the sordid icing on this particularly fetid cake.

The warranty booklet also makes it very clear that this is an insurance scheme.

The AU brochure says this:

The concept is simple: buying an Approved Used Mercedes‑Benz from an authorised Retailer guarantees the quality and customer satisfaction you would normally associate with buying a brand new Mercedes‑Benz.
​

I don't think your experience of the AU warranty actually matches with that promise unless getting warranty attention on a new MB has become a shoddy experience.

So which is it MB? Is the customer satisfaction associated with buying a new MB from you supposed to be that bad .... or is it that the customer satisfaction associated with buying an approved used car from you isn't actually what you would associate with buying a new car.

 

[WDB124066]

What will you do now Notamused...?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I understand it can be frustrating when you feel like you're being short changed, but when viewed from a more neutral position, I don't believe you are being treated poorly.

The warranty does not cover all faults, and like all insurance products there are exclusions. If the fault is excluded, then the warranty will not pick up the cost of the repair or the diagnosis. Why would you expect that not to be the case?

1 - The roof leak is clear to see without any diagnostics.
2 - The wiper issue is something that may, or may not be covered under warranty.. (who knows?)
3 - This inspection would be carried out at no cost at the dealer I bought the car from.

The diagnostics is not to witness the symptoms, it's to identify the cause, which will enable the dealer to determine whether it's covered by the warranty, to provide a breakdown of work and parts required to repair, and finally provide a quote for the repair to whomever will pick up the bill (including a charge for the diagnostics time). At this point, the dealer has incurred a cost, i.e. The Technician's time.

Now based upon the terms of the warranty, and regardless of which official Mercedes dealership you use, if the fault and therefore the repair is covered by the warranty then the warranty company will pay for the diagnostics and repair. If it's excluded from the warranty then you will pay for the diagnostics (having previously agreed to so), and choose whether to proceed with the repair based upon the quote provided.

So if you go ahead and ask the dealer to diagnose the fault, which I believe they have already advised may not be covered by the warranty, then once diagnosed the dealership has incurred cost, the Technician's time. Depending upon your relationship with the dealership, then they may choose to either waive the diagnostic fee, or charge you for it.

You already have a relationship with the supplying dealer, and because you bought the car from them recently are much more likely to waive the diagnostic fee, and fairly likely to repair the car. This would not be under the terms of the warranty, this would be at their cost, because they sold the car to you, and soon after it developed a fault which may have been present at the time of sale.

This is not a claim under the Tier 1 warranty. This is the seller fixing an issue that they should or could have picked up prior to sale, or who wish to protect their reputation by sorting it out for you. The outcome may be the same, that is to say that the fault has been repaired, but the cost has been met by the dealer and not the warranty company.

I believe the warranty claims process on Approved Used Cars has been tightened up because it was not uncommon for dealerships to sell cars with faults on the basis that if the customer returns after the sale, then the cost could be met by the warranty company. If repaired prior to sale then the dealership meets the cost, reducing their profit on the car. Hence the warranty claims process has been tightened.

The other way to waive the diagnostics fee is to have a relationship with another dealership, who believe that your ongoing custom is worth them accepting the cost of the Technician's time without payment. If the dealership believes you'll be a returning customer who they wish to do business with, then they may waive the fee. If they don't, then they won't, i.e. you won't go back or you're more trouble than you're worth.

How long did you plan to keep the car for, and who do you plan to use for routine servicing?

Now the argument that the dealer I bought from has more of an obligation to me is (or should be) a moot point. This is because the Tier one warranty is (as MB-UK customer services informed me) offered by Mercedes Benz themselves, and as such, should have the same conditions and level of service wherever your car is taken within the network. Sadly, this is clearly not how it works.

That's not quite true, the conditions and level of service provided by the Tier 1 warranty is the same, you just don't want to have to pay for the diagnostics or subsequent repair (if not covered by the warranty), which is understandable but doesn't mean that warranty claims are in some way different depending upon the dealership used.

If for some reason a Mercedes dealership in another town owed you £100, and the diagmostics cost £110, so they said "bring your car here for diagnostics and let's call it even", then would you still question the terms and conditions of the Tier 1 warranty if your local dealer still wanted to charge you £110?

 

[TheFoX]

A few years back I bought a C220 from my local MB dealer. On its next service, an injector seal or two had blown and was politely told by the dealer that I would have to foot the bill. Needless to say, I argued the toss as to why a three year old C class with only 27,000 miles on the clock should suffer such a failure. They agreed to pay for the seal replacement as a gesture of goodwill.

I've discovered over the years that of you are a weak minded individual then the dealer will try their utmost to pass as much cost to you as possible, even inflating the cost of the works to compensate them for having to deal with such stupid customers, but if your are bloody minded and stand your ground, they'll absorb the cost just to get you off their backs.

As for warranties, they protect the parts of the car that are least likely to fail under a proper service regime, yet èxclude those parts most likely to fail, or create clauses that give them the power to exclude anything they like if they feel you haven't followed the letter of the T&Cs.

 

[Petrol Pete]

A few years back I bought a C220 from my local MB dealer. On its next service, an injector seal or two had blown and was politely told by the dealer that I would have to foot the bill. Needless to say, I argued the toss as to why a three year old C class with only 27,000 miles on the clock should suffer such a failure. They agreed to pay for the seal replacement as a gesture of goodwill.

I've discovered over the years that of you are a weak minded individual then the dealer will try their utmost to pass as much cost to you as possible, even inflating the cost of the works to compensate them for having to deal with such stupid customers, but if your are bloody minded and stand your ground, they'll absorb the cost just to get you off their backs.

As for warranties, they protect the parts of the car that are least likely to fail under a proper service regime, yet èxclude those parts most likely to fail, or create clauses that give them the power to exclude anything they like if they feel you haven't followed the letter of the T&Cs.

I have a friend in the car trade who say's after years of experience he can spot a 'troublesome' customer from a mile away, based on his gut feeling that this is the type of person who will bring the car back time and time again for any little squeak or rattle he will simply not move on the price or offer a derisory trade in just to get them off the lot.

Slightly different if he can persuade them to buy an insurance backed 'Gold' warranty (massive mark up ££) on which they can claim and he can profit.

 

[Notamused]

@ Dryce...

As you point out and quote from MB themselves.

"The concept is simple: buying an Approved Used Mercedes‑Benz from an authorised Retailer guarantees the quality and customer satisfaction you would normally associate with buying a brand new Mercedes‑Benz."

I'll let others make up their minds over whether they feel this is likely or true. All I'll say is that to me, it's been a disappointment.


@ WBD124066...

Will contact the selling dealer and enquire as to whether they would cover the diagnostic charge. If so, then I'll get it looked at, and if not, I'll have to consider my options.


@ Bobbydazzler...

No, I understand it won't cover all faults. That's not what I am asking it to do. What I was initially shocked by is the requirement to have a charge placed against a card to get the car looked at. Also, it would be useful to know what is or is not covered, so a customer can determine whether it's worth them allowing MB to inspect their car. For me, the statement of "some seals are covered and some not,"... and... "some electrical components are covered and some not" was not really good enough. That kind of information leaves a customer not knowing where the hell they are. Furthermore, the fact that the agent at my local dealer asked me, "is the leak at the passenger side A pillar at front of side window" was somewhat suspect, in that this is a known problem, and is (should be) perhaps a recall issue. I understand what the diagnostics are for, so I won't get into that. But, if a dealer knows that what they may be diagnosing isn't covered by warranty anyway, then surely the customer should be made aware of that, rather than allowing them to throw £150 at a pointless exercise. It was the vague nature of advice over what is covered that was disconcerting. My later call to another local...ish dealer from the same group stated that NO SEALS were covered under the Tier one warranty. All the stuff about this or that dealer is technically irrelevant from what I was told by the MB UK customer services agent, as he told me "the Tier one warranty should operate on the same basis in every MB dealership nationwide. I'm not seeking to get the fee "waived". I was shocked to discover there was a fee at all. Then, I was even more shocked to be told that for my particular issues, that there may or may not be cover. What the hell kind of service is that.? I've no idea how long I'll keep the car, and the last service was a very recent "B" service at an MB independent.


@ Thefox...

I am certainly no weak minded individual, trust me on that. I can be and am willing to argue my case if I feel I have a valid argument. I'm not sure what your version of "bloodyminded " looks like, But, what I won't do is shout and rant in the hope it'll bring me what I want, because experience has taught me that it rarely gets you there. I am not any kind of needy or troublesome customer either and called into my local dealer to have a first point of contact about the issues. It was my first enquiry about it. I have no idea on how dealers / manufacturers determine what is or is not covered on their warranties. However, the fact that before purchase I was told that the AU warranty is as good as a new car warranty (to me anyway) doesn't hold water. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[grober]

According to your first post there are two distinct faults here. One with the wipers [more on that later] and two with leaksfrom door/window seals. Regrettably for a car with a folding roof and frameless windows such as an SLK this sorta comes with the territory despite what the glossy brochures say. Technicians hate these small leaks because they are as much a function of the moveable design as any fault. On the wiper fault if the symptoms are as described you are on stronger ground here as a brief search on SLK rain sensing wipers will reveal. Although based on an earlier model when you start to read about photocell sensors stuck to the windscreen with gell you begin to appreciate the potential for problems to arise . Sensitivity for these is coded via star and if they malfunction strange errratic behaviour may follow on other settings.
e.g.
SLK Rain Sensor - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Questions on troubleshooting a Rainsensor issue - Mercedes-Benz Forum
post three links gives an indication how complex these wiper systems are.

 

[Notamused]

Thanks Grober, this is very interesting.

 

[TheFoX]

@ Thefox...

I am certainly no weak minded individual, trust me on that. I can be and am willing to argue my case if I feel I have a valid argument. I'm not sure what your version of "bloodyminded " looks like, But, what I won't do is shout and rant in the hope it'll bring me what I want, because experience has taught me that it rarely gets you there. I am not any kind of needy or troublesome customer either and called into my local dealer to have a first point of contact about the issues. It was my first enquiry about it. I have no idea on how dealers / manufacturers determine what is or is not covered on their warranties. However, the fact that before purchase I was told that the AU warranty is as good as a new car warranty (to me anyway) doesn't hold water. Maybe I am wrong.

My post is general in nature, in that weaker people tend to be taken advantage of, whereas strong willed people aren't, and there was no intention whatsoever to label you one way or another.

As for my version of 'bloodyminded', I am referring to the action of confronting the service manager over why he hadn't repaired my steering issue when I made it quite clear the vehicle was pulling to the left when I had dropped it off two days earlier, and also being bloodyminded is not accepting their excuse that your poor driving standard is to blame for the car misbehaving, especially since I am classed as an advanced driver.

One thing I hate is being lied to, telling me the vehicle had a full service history, only to find out later that the service prior to taking delivery of the vehicle had been skipped, resulting in a substandard vehicle with issues that would surface at the next service, such as rodent damage to some electrical cables.

That C220 had quite a history that didn't surface until after I'd taken ownership, and the dealership knew about it when they flogged it to me for a pretty penny. Why would I then pay them to fix the problems that the vehicle had when I took delivery. Now I know that some people will say that I should have been more carefull, but since I am not a vehicle mechanic and considering that the vehicle was supplied by a main dealer, there is an expectation that the vehicle should be delivered to the client in the best condition possible, and not with underlying issues that the dealer is aware of and passing onto the client without their knowledge.

So, being bloodyminded means standing up to the service manager and NOT accepting the bullshit he is trying to feed you. Remember that these service managers are well trained at dealing with the public, and can spot someone gullible enough to take the blame for the lack of quality of the product sold.

As Del Boy said to the vicar in 'The Frog's Legacy', 'You must have pressed a wrong button or something'. There is always an excuse as to why it is not their fault but it is your fault. It is your right to stand up and say, 'NO. I am not accepting that excuse'.

Ironically, I bought my CLS from a non franchised dealer, and got a far better quality of service from them. They even sent back the Endless River CD I had accidentally left in the C220 after part exchanging. How's that for service.