Problems with micheldever tyres

[aka$h]

I had the set of tyres replaced at the weekend on my boxster. I checked the prices on http://www.micheldever.co.uk/ then went on to by them and book a fitting time.
I was unware of what speed rating the tyres should be so i used the reg checker on their site to list tyres.
It came back with a list and I picked Dunlop SP9000's, the set comprising of 2x225/40/18 and 2x265/35/18 came to £424 fitted.

I then drove an hour to their fitting centre in slough on saturday morning, to be told those tyres cannot be used on a Porsche. All Porsche tyres must be "N" rated. We would be liable if we fit those tyres on your car and you have a crash. Your insurance would be invalidated, so we simply wont fit them.
I took their word for it, although I wasnt happy about it, they then sold me a set of "N" rated Pirelli P-Zero's which cost an additional ~£200.

I have since spoken to my insurance broker and it would seem they have given me the wrong information.

Where do I stand? Is it even worth bothering with, what do you think?

 

[GrahamC230K]

I think regardless of what your Insurance broker says (which I find dubious I have to say) I think you still have to identify if your vehicle needs N rated tyres or not (never heard of N).

Once you this, you have something to either argue with the supplier about or not. Surely your manual or a dealer will resolve this for you?

Persoanlly, regardless of insurance (which I would imagine WOULD be affected) I cannot think of a good reason to downgrade a tyres speed or load rating, not a good plan.

I'd find out just so you know you haven'nt been ripped off or not and know for next time.

 

[GrahamC230K]

A quick google reveals N rated tyres are a Porsche thing indeed. Designed to be the best for your car and cost the most I am sure!

The fitters were correct and I would just ignore your insurance broker on this one, the N rated tyre is going to be best for regardless I imagine.

 

[BaldGuy]

Totally correct info..... I had N rated Dunlops on my S..

 

[stats007]

The Pirellis are probably N3 - I has Michelin Pilt Sport N1s on mine. You don't have to have N-rated tyres - however a bit silly not to.

Mercedes have their own MO fitting.

 

[tlzeebub]

Some tyre sizes are developed specifically for vehicle fitment, however your sizes are not, but tyre manufacturers make the same sizes in general fitment and also for dedicated fitment N=Porsche MO=Mercedes J= Jaguar, however these are really not that important, what is important is that you fit the tyres with the right load/speed index

 

[jaymanek]

I think that its an optional thing, i dont think your insurance would have been invalidated if you had gone for the dunlops as they still have the speed and weight reading you need. p.s. didnt know you had a boxster?!

 

[aka$h]

Thats for the advice chaps, going to get some more information on it. By the looks fo things, its reccomended by porsche you fit N rated, but has nayone ever gone out to find MO tyres for their mercedes?

The way I was thinking was, Pirelli make P-Zeros in the same size with a Y rating which is upto 186mph, if its good enough for a sl55, im sure its good enough for a boxster.

But then I found this:
"Porsche designs and manufacturers some of the highest performance cars in the world (with the exception of the butt-ugly Cayenne). All this design and performance is worth nothing if you put cheap Korean tyres on your Porsche though, and because of that prospect, Porsche introduced the N rating or N specification system. In order for a manufacturer to be an OE (original equipment) supplier of tyres for Porsches, they must work with the Porsche engineers at the development and testing stage. They concentrate on supreme dry-weather handling but they also spend a considerable amount of time working on wet-weather handling. Porsches are typically very tail-heavy because of the position of the engine relative to the rear wheels, and with traction control off, it's extremely easy to spin one in the wet. Because of this, Porsche specify a set of wet-grip properties which is way above and beyond the requirements of any other car manufacturer.
OE tyres for Porsches must successfully pass lab tests to prove that they would be capable of adequately supporting a Porsche at top speed on a German Autobahn. Once the lab tests are done, they must go on to track and race tests where prototypes are evaluated by Porsche engineers for their high-speed durability, uniformity and serviceability. If they pass all the tests, Porsche give the manufacturer the go-ahead to put the tyres into production and then they can proudly claim they are an N-rated Porsche OEM.
The N-ratings go from 0 (zero) to 4, marked as N-0, N-1 etc. This N-rating, stamped into a tyre sidewall, clearly identifies these tyres as having gone through all the nauseating R&D and testing required by Porsche as described above. The number designates the revision of the design. So for a totally new design, the first approved version of it will be N-0. When the design is improved in some way, it will be re-rated as an N-1. If the design changes completely so as to become a totally new tyre, it will be re-rated at N-0.
If you've got a Porsche, then you ought to be aware that as well as using N-rated tyres, you ought to use matching tyres all around because many Porsches have different sizes tyres front and rear. So for example if you have a Porsche with N-3 rated tyres and the rear ones need replacing but the model has been discontinued, you should not get N-0's and put them on the back leaving the old N-3's on the front. You should replace all of them with the newer-designed re-rated N-0 tyres. But then you own a Porsche so you can certainly afford four new tyres....
One final point. You may go into a tire warehouse and find two tyres with all identical markings, sizes and speed ratings, but one set has an N-rating. Despite everything else being the same, the non-N-rated tyres have not been certified for use on a Porsche. You can buy them, and you can put them on your car, but if you stuff it into the armco at 150mph, Porsche will just look at you and with a very teutonic expression ask why you didn't use N-rated tyres.
"

So I guess for a few extra pounds, at least Ive got peace of mind when driving like a loony!

PS. here's a link to a few photos:
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=42200

 

[Rory]

Thats for the advice chaps, going to get some more information on it. By the looks fo things, its reccomended by porsche you fit N rated, but has nayone ever gone out to find MO tyres for their mercedes?

So, here's the answer I got from Michelin: Note they don't even do an MO of one of my sizes, which renders the whole thing pointless. G1 is for Renault, by the way.

I imagine that this is simply a marketing exercise, and the tyre manufacturers probably pay for 'approval' in the hope it will bring them business. (Same as with MB or VW 'approved' oil).

My car came from the factory with Bridgestones fitted, and there are supposed to be MB versions of those, but they were not marked as being anything other than standard.

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

We have allocated your message the reference number indicated above. If you need
to contact us again regarding your message, we would be grateful if you could
include the reference number.



Michelin produce & stock the following products, listed as having been
homologated/accepted by Mrcedes for fitment as original:

Front: 205/55 R 16 91V 'Pilot Primacy G1'

Front: 225/50 R 16 93V 'Pilot Primacy G1 MO'

'Pilot Primacy': Touring
Fulfils the functions of 'High mileage & Comfort': reduced vibration & noise for
comfort on long journeys. Excellent performance in the wet, especially during
cornering in deep water.
Asymmetric tread pattern design supersedes ranges 'Pilot HX' & 'Pilot CX'.

OE Fitments, Mercedes:
Regarding the sidewall markings on certain tyre products fitted to Mercedes
vehicles as original equipment, descriptions 'MO' & 'G1' refer to 'tuned'
product characteristics suited to those particular vehicles.

One has to be aware that, should the correct 'original notation' tyre not be
fitted, then certain performance characteristics may not be presented as
intended by manufacturer Mercedes, but should not be a legal or insurance issue
in the UK.

'MO' notation:
These tyres have been fine tuned to provide optimum performance on specific
Mercedes vehicles.
Please do not mix MO with non-MO tyres on an axle.

'G1' notation:
Again, these tyres do have technical differences from non-G1 tyres.
Potential for slight alteration in tread width (not section width) &/or overall
tyre diameter.
These tyres still comply with ETRTO dimensional requirements.
Please do not mix G1 with non-G1 tyres on an axle.
Not recommended to mix between axles on a 4wheel drive transmission.
G1 tyres are not specific to one certain car manufacturer.

Michelin recommendations are to stay with particular vehicle manufacturer's tyre
choice, in order to give the performances expected by that manufacturer.


Once again thank you for your interest in Michelin

Yours sincerely
Michelin Tyre Public Limited Company


Technical Service
Michelin Tyre Public Limited Company

 

[stats007]

I had MO fitment on the SL - the same tyres are popular with BMW M5 drivers. I have Porsche fitment Michelins on the Maserati at the moment but it seems Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric are the new kid on the block.

 

[Rory]

I would add that I compared the prices on My Tyres, and the £200 difference from Dunlop to Pirelli looks approx right. That's what you're paying for - the Porsche approval rating hardly adds anything to the price.

 

[stats007]

You do need to shop around - as always. I paid £550 for 4 Michelin Pilot Sport N1s fitted a few months ago. Micheldever were £100 more expensive.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The way I was thinking was, Pirelli make P-Zeros in the same size with a Y rating which is upto 186mph, if its good enough for a sl55, im sure its good enough for a boxster.

Pirelli P-Zero Rosso Assymetrico come in MO or 'normal' flavours. I paid extra to have non-MO, as they're Y-rated and therefore good for 186mph. IIRC the MO were rated only to 155mph (?).

Whilst it's accademic for normal driving, as I don't often drive at more than 155mph*, I decided I wanted tyres rated to the top speed of the car. It seems some AMGs have been de-restricted from new, and just in case mine has been, I wanted to know I had tyres to suit.

* Disclaimer - I was being sarcastic, and never drive at more than 155mph. Officer. Seriously. No, I really don't. You do believe me don't you?

I had an SW20 MR2 - the later version (like mine) had a much improved chassis because the early version was prone to be a "edgy".

By "edgy", what I actually mean is completely un-predictable close to the limit. Anyway because they were so sensitive to tyres, I junked the Bridgestones that were fitted in favour of Toyota-spec Yokohamas, to make sure the tyres complemented the chassis, and minimised the chances of irratic behaviour!!

Given that the Boxster is mid-engined - like the MR2 - I would probably play it safe and go for the Porsche-approved tyres.

I'm sure the Boxster is in a different league to a now-dated MR2, but fundamentally, the things that make a mid-engined car change direction and handle the way it does, also means it's more difficult to catch at the limit.

Just call me Stig.

 

[jaymanek]

ive seen 3 boxsters in the ditch alongside the M1 over the last couple of years... wonder what tyres they had...

 

[stats007]

Slippery ones?

 

[Chris Murray]

Quite often the NX Porsche spec front tyres cost LESS than the non-NX. NX rated front tyres often have a far lower load index since there isn't any weight at the front of a rear-engined car

 

[marcos]

Starnge how this has come up.
Last week I was talking to a chap I know who has a W211 E500, he was saying that since his lease company changed the tyres on the rear the car has become a deathtrap. He was saying that the tyres that they replaced were the same type as before but instead of a M-O on them they had an N and he was insistent that this was the problem. The lease company insisted that the tyres they had fitted were correct so he rang up the MB dealership.
They told him that the tyres fitted were not for his car and were infact for a Porsche and that these tyres were dangerous as the inner part of the tread sits lower than the outer so the tyre has never full contact with the road, something like that I can't remember.
Armed with this he went back to the lease company and the battle is still ongoing, they will not accept that the tyres are not rated for his car.
I'll point him towards this thread next week as I'm sure it will help his case.

 

[Rory]

Starnge how this has come up.
Last week I was talking to a chap I know who has a W211 E500, he was saying that since his lease company changed the tyres on the rear the car has become a deathtrap. He was saying that the tyres that they replaced were the same type as before but instead of a M-O on them they had an N and he was insistent that this was the problem. The lease company insisted that the tyres they had fitted were correct so he rang up the MB dealership.
They told him that the tyres fitted were not for his car and were infact for a Porsche and that these tyres were dangerous as the inner part of the tread sits lower than the outer so the tyre has never full contact with the road, something like that I can't remember.
Armed with this he went back to the lease company and the battle is still ongoing, they will not accept that the tyres are not rated for his car.
I'll point him towards this thread next week as I'm sure it will help his case.

If he works for a biggish company with HR etc, then that's a *huge* health and safety issue that they should resolve urgently. We had lease company tyre problems and Peugeot said they didn't approve the tyres our lease company was fitting. Our fleet manager wet himself and insisted that tyres were only replaced like for like.
Lease companies are a pain for this - my daughters SEAT Ibiza is on a VAG maint contract and they would only fit Conti EcoContacts to replace Dunlop SP2000s. There's nothing wrong with the Conti's, but it's a completely different kind of tyre, and they would only change the fronts, so it affects the balance of the car.

In your friends case I doubt the word of an MB dealer would be sufficient (they might be talking rubbish) - he should get a statement from the tyre manufacturer.

 

[Flash]

I had the set of tyres replaced at the weekend on my boxster. I checked the prices on http://www.micheldever.co.uk/ then went on to by them and book a fitting time.
I was unware of what speed rating the tyres should be so i used the reg checker on their site to list tyres.
It came back with a list and I picked Dunlop SP9000's, the set comprising of 2x225/40/18 and 2x265/35/18 came to £424 fitted.

I then drove an hour to their fitting centre in slough on saturday morning, to be told those tyres cannot be used on a Porsche. All Porsche tyres must be "N" rated. We would be liable if we fit those tyres on your car and you have a crash. Your insurance would be invalidated, so we simply wont fit them.
I took their word for it, although I wasnt happy about it, they then sold me a set of "N" rated Pirelli P-Zero's which cost an additional ~£200.

I have since spoken to my insurance broker and it would seem they have given me the wrong information.

Where do I stand? Is it even worth bothering with, what do you think?

Used the same company once to balance a wheel on one of my Mercs. Never again! They scratched the entire rim of the wheel in the process! They are based on Dover Road on the Trading Estate just down the road from Greenoaks.

 

[Mosselmann]

at the end of the day you need the right tyres on that definatly or slip slip