re: w202 c220 1994 very Sluggish accelerator repsonse

[MSinghMerc]

That is probably independent of the current problem but if it smells of solvent then he may well be right in recommending that it be changed. Is there any reason you know of that could account for the smell - eg, use of engine flush? Oil analysis could probably identify why it smells but I'd skip that unless it's a recurring problem after an oil change

Dear Bellow, i bought the car this way, and it has been standing for some time, just before covid, so i guess that eng. oil chnage is ok to do

 

[MSinghMerc]

You still haven't told me if the car when setting off feels like it has a slipping clutch or as if it's in too high a gear (if it were manual transmission) or neither. If there is a problem within the transmission it will likely have to be stripped for rebuild so little point in replacing the fluid now. It should however be topped up. Even if the fluid is due a change it should still work tolerably well enough until the current problem is eradicated or identified. There is no separate torque convertor oil - it is the same as used in the gearbox. There may be a drain plug on the TC - which is a help if/when the fluid has to be changed.

I have just allowed it to warm up for 15mins and taken it for a drive down the road, it now seems to be driving ok, but i still have to push a little on the pedal, i did yesterday bring the ilde just under 1k revs.
so, today it felt like normal gear change and ok revs, but for reverse I have to push a down a little.

i am getting mixed feelings, also its not been driven for a few years, and i have not really driven it myself,

I then looked at the atf dipstcik again, there is clear liquid on the end, and it does cover the 80c mark

I plan to change the eng oil tomorrow and filter, sparks that i have brought will change, and also the coolant.

then take to mot , and it will pass.

that still leave me with the uncertainty of the ATF or TC - i have been reading about atf slippage oil top up?

Also, i have read that if the atf oil is dark, then TC has got used to this and best to leave it in there and buy the time, and eventually will have to replace the gearbox and TC?

 

[MSinghMerc]

Again, unlikely to be relevant - unless, there is signs of oil in it or he checked the anti-freeze level and found it lacking. The former point though may warrant further investigation as there may be a breach in the trans cooler allowing engine and trans fluid to mix - a possible explanation of the solvent smell in the oil. For all of this I need to know if the trans is slipping or bogging. High or low rpm when setting off.

Today, low revs when i set off, the pedal felt ok, but for reverse it seems i have to push a little more

 

[Bellow]

Dear Bellow, i bought the car this way, and it has been standing for some time, just before covid, so i guess that eng. oil chnage is ok to do

Not yet. Firstly, sitting around doing nothing won't have harmed the oil to any significant degree. Secondly, if it transpires that there is intermixing between coolant and engine oil (that solvent smell) there will be more involved remedial work required.
What you could do is look for that intermixing. It'll be hard to get enough oil out to view it for milkiness - the visual sign of water and oil mixing but a drop taken from the end of the dipstick dropped onto a very hot surface - eg, hot plate at 150+C - should spit if there's water in it. The next test isn't pleasant but a drop of it on your tongue will taste of anti-freeze (sweet) if there's cross contamination. Check also the coolant for signs of oil - rainbows.

 

[Bellow]

I have just allowed it to warm up for 15mins and taken it for a drive down the road, it now seems to be driving ok, but i still have to push a little on the pedal, i did yesterday bring the ilde just under 1k revs.
so, today it felt like normal gear change and ok revs, but for reverse I have to push a down a little.

i am getting mixed feelings, also its not been driven for a few years, and i have not really driven it myself,

I assume you have driven a manual car and know how it feels to set off in the wrong gear - very slow acceleration and low rpm. Is that how it feels.

I then looked at the atf dipstcik again, there is clear liquid on the end, and it does cover the 80c mark

Is that 'clear liquid' clean oil or water?

I plan to change the eng oil tomorrow and filter, sparks that i have brought will change, and also the coolant.

If you do, do not discard all of the oil. Hold some back for ad-hoc testing or full analysis should it be required.

then take to mot , and it will pass.

that still leave me with the uncertainty of the ATF or TC - i have been reading about atf slippage oil top up?

Low fluid level and/or contaminated (coolant) can cause slipping. Which is why I'm asking is it feels like a slipping clutch or too high a gear;

Also, i have read that if the atf oil is dark, then TC has got used to this and best to leave it in there and buy the time, and eventually will have to replace the gearbox and TC?

Darkened fluid is overheated fluid or just it at the end of its life. Whether it should be changed when it's like that is a topic that can crash the internet. We'll leave that for later.

 

[MSinghMerc]

on Thursday, i am taking the car for MOT, so thats like a10mins 15mins ride, i will try to make a video and talk about whats going on.
and also can give better explaining ,

this is so much headache, is there anyone you know who near me and honest, and will not rip me off to fix the issue?

 

[Bellow]

on Thursday, i am taking the car for MOT, so thats like a10mins 15mins ride, i will try to make a video and talk about whats going on.
and also can give better explaining ,

Video will be of help. And, don't throw away all of the three fluids if you change them. Hold back a small amount in case analysis is required. The ad-hoc tests and visual observation for intermixing will be of help also.

this is so much headache, is there anyone you know who near me and honest, and will not rip me off to fix the issue?

No, I don't know of anyone but if we can get a diagnosis then finding someone to do the remedial work will be easier.

 

[MSinghMerc]

i really appreciate your help in this,

i bought the car thinking any small issues can be fixed, and plus did not want to give a great looking car, photos below:

 

[Bellow]

.

i am getting mixed feelings, also its not been driven for a few years, and i have not really driven it myself,

That little nugget has been on my mind. It's got me wondering if rather than a transmission problem, the engine is down on power. It wouldn't be the first time in a car left sitting that some rodent or bird decided to build its nest in the air filter box - choking off air supply to the engine...
Two of the outstanding concerns I have - the above and binding brakes will I'm sure if present come to the fore in the MOT. If all good then home in on the transmission. And if it is the transmission, the fluids will give forth clues.
I've just looked at the MOT history (I wanted to know the mileage) and it has sat for a long period without use. Has the fuel leak been sorted? I'm assuming so but as it could affect power....
It might also be helpful to know the concentration level of anti-freeze in the coolant. If you get the chance to check it...

 

[MSinghMerc]

Dear Bellow and Team,

today i have changed the engine oil , spark plugs and coolant.

not driven , as had to attend to other things

engine oil no does not smell of varnish, and sound better

photos below, on Saturday will take for MOT and will update on ride and anything else, but ATF not touched so, far, the

first photo is of the atf stick, when engine is at 80c
2nd oil filter housing
3rd old oil filter
4th & 5th removed sparks
6th engine dipstick showing new oil
7th showing eng. oil colour before and after..

 

[MSinghMerc]

Sorry first and 6th photos are swapped,

So 1st if lipstick and 6th atf still k

 

[MSinghMerc]

Dear Bellow and team,

when i drove to the mot place, its high revs and slow moving forward, when i put into reverse, very high revs and then it moved back.

I asked the mechanic at the mot centre to, change the atf oil, gasket, before they re-mot it again,
when he drained the atf oil, next to nothing cam out may be 40/50ml came out, I then cleaned and attached new gasket.

MOT Passed,

now the car drives normally any no more high revs going froward or back, idling is still fantastic.

But, I do agree the 2.2 is no way fast off the line and is more of a cruiser than fast car, with max 150bhp when new, its probably no where near that now.

I feel the only last thing to look at would be the throttle body, anybody with any experience with this? may be a refurbished one? or a better one from a better brand?, can twin 45s be attached? or fuel injection?

thank you to all for your help,

 

[DSM10000]

Dear Bellow and team,

when i drove to the mot place, its high revs and slow moving forward, when i put into reverse, very high revs and then it moved back.

I asked the mechanic at the mot centre to, change the atf oil, gasket, before they re-mot it again,
when he drained the atf oil, next to nothing cam out may be 40/50ml came out, I then cleaned and attached new gasket.

MOT Passed,

now the car drives normally any no more high revs going froward or back, idling is still fantastic.

But, I do agree the 2.2 is no way fast off the line and is more of a cruiser than fast car, with max 150bhp when new, its probably no where near that now.

I feel the only last thing to look at would be the throttle body, anybody with any experience with this? may be a refurbished one? or a better one from a better brand?, can twin 45s be attached? or fuel injection?

thank you to all for your help,

Your car has fuel injection.

Are you seriously asking if a pair of 45mm carburetors can be fitted?. The answer is probably yes but at a great deal of expense for no benefit.

The throttle body may need cleaning or may have a fault. Ask a Mercedes specialist to look and advise.

 

[Bellow]

Dear Bellow and team,

when i drove to the mot place, its high revs and slow moving forward, when i put into reverse, very high revs and then it moved back.

I asked the mechanic at the mot centre to, change the atf oil, gasket, before they re-mot it again,
when he drained the atf oil, next to nothing cam out may be 40/50ml came out, I then cleaned and attached new gasket.

MOT Passed,

now the car drives normally any no more high revs going froward or back, idling is still fantastic.1

Excellent - it's sorted = and nothing more than low ATF level. Result!

But, I do agree the 2.2 is no way fast off the line and is more of a cruiser than fast car, with max 150bhp when new, its probably no where near that now.

It probably wont be far from that original power output.

I feel the only last thing to look at would be the throttle body, anybody with any experience with this? may be a refurbished one? or a better one from a better brand?, can twin 45s be attached? or fuel injection?

But, if you want to go faster. consider buying a faster car. Or, just enjoy the car as it is (recommended).

thank you to all for your help,

You're welcome. Glad it all came good in the end.

 

[MSinghMerc]

thank you to you all for your patience and great help.

i have been building the car up as for sound, so will post up photos soon...

 

[MSinghMerc]

Your car has fuel injection.

Are you seriously asking if a pair of 45mm carburetors can be fitted?. The answer is probably yes but at a great deal of expense for no benefit.

The throttle body may need cleaning or may have a fault. Ask a Mercedes specialist to look and advise.

There must be an upgrade, even for single T/B may be a bit bigger?

 

[DSM10000]

There must be an upgrade, even for single T/B may be a bit bigger?

There must be an upgrade, even for single T/B may be a bit bigger?

Why must there be an upgrade?

The car was designed as a mid range saloon, not for high power. I very much doubt anyone spent the time and money to develop any performance modifications.

 

[MSinghMerc]

The car was designed as a mid range saloon, not for high power. I very much doubt anyone spent the time and money to develop any performance modifications.

what would you change on this car for performance?
Also, do you know anyone that can clean the T/B and injectors in Essex?

 

[DSM10000]

what would you change on this car for performance?
Also, do you know anyone that can clean the T/B and injectors in Essex?

No idea to both questions.

It is a normally aspirated engine with, I imagine very few if any options to improve the performance, changing the car to one with a more powerful engine would be easier and cheaper.

 

[Bellow]

what would you change on this car for performance?

Nothing or everything.
Engines are a package of very carefully selected components all calibrated to work in concert and deliver the least amount of compromises engines throw up. There is no point in up-speccing one component when the others won't be able to support. So, for more power increase the flow capacity of the induction system (eg, larger TB) then change the camshafts for ones that can support the improved breathing of the improved induction system. Undertake all of the machining work required to achieve that camshaft change then turn your attention the pistons, con rods, and crankshaft replacing with stronger components to withstand the increased rpm that the aforementioned improvements not only enable but demand. Throw several hundred £s at a new exhaust system then several fortunes and many many hours on a dyno dialling in fuelling and ignition timing calibrations for every speed/load combination the engine has to operate in and when all that is done you will have a few horsepower more at high rpm and in all probability much reduced torque in the first few thousand rpm - where the car spends most of its working life. Your call.

Also, do you know anyone that can clean the T/B and injectors in Essex?

Why are you convinced they need cleaning? That it has just passed an MOT emissions test implies that the injectors are performing well enough, and the most troubling element of a TB is the IAC valve which controls idle speed and I'm not hearing complaints of an unstable idle. By all means remove it and clean with carb cleaner but I wouldn't pay someone to do it - juice aint worth the squeeze.