to refund or not
"Hi There
I am the guy Talbir has settled a dispute with over a set of faulty wheels. Let me just outline a couple of salient points from the outset, points that I feel are both reasonable and balanced.
Talbir I believe had no prior knowledge that the wheels were faulty.
I had neither mounted these wheels to my car or damaged them in any way. I
believe Talbir would concede this, ignoring, for the time being, the initial refurbishment
work carried out by Spit & Polish.
I am an ordinary consumer, I love cars (I have a 993 & W126, & have had a 190E 2.5-16 & a couple of other 911s) but I am not an expert and, believe it or not, this was the first set of wheels I have ever purchased.
What I am trying to establish is that there are two individuals here neither of whom are
crooked or trying to dupe each other.
I purchased the wheels, with some recommendation, when asked if anything needed doing to them all that was discussed were the tyres (worn out) and refurbishment. Talbir recommended Spit and Polish.
Timing
Bear in mind that we are saying the faults were virtually undetectable and only came to light once the refurbishment had commenced.
They were in my hallway for some time; partly due to the fact Spit & Polish (S&P) had some problems with their e- mail. The wheels were eventually picked up via the local tyre company they use as drop off points, they were then unable to contact me for again a few days. Eventually, I got a call from the tyre company saying the wheels were badly damaged and they hadn't been refurbed. The information was sketchy and second hand at this point. However I did feel the need to contact Talbir quickly as I wanted to get his view on this. At this point I thought we were only talking about cracks.
His view was that a repair could be made cheaply and safely via a welder. I then attempted to contact, through Yell, 3 aluminium welders to no avail - two of whom said too small a job or they didn't do wheels, not a great many but I did make some effort here.
Subsequently - I contacted the tyre company and S&P. The Tyre company said it would be very expensive to repair them as they were also warped. I contacted S&P, although I didn't get hold of the guy who rejected the job, they told me the condition was poor and not worth proceeding with. Remember my inclination here prior to this was to get them repaired - if it was £25 or £30 it would not have been a problem. I am not an expert and if S&P said not to proceed, well I pretty much take their advice. Having read the thread I gather this issue may have other interpretations as to why S&P would not advise proceeding with any repair. However their information persuaded me to ask for a refund on the wheels.
Condition
I have subsequently spoken to Dave at S&P, who said he does not mind being mentioned in this. The crack could be welded efficiently. The real issue with the wheels is that they are warped. He feels that to straighten the set (all 4 wheels are damaged) would lead to a risk of further cracking and would not be worth pursuing. I returned to Talbir with magic marker highlighting the areas S&P were concerned about. I am in no way knowledgeable enough to comment on the technical aspects of this but heed advice from a knowledgeable source and as a layman would feel obliged to trust it – also it would strike me as foolhardy to take a risk if there is a personal safety issue.
Photography
Let's get the facts straight here I had only very recently been asked for photography and within 24 hours mentioned as not supplying it. The wheels were not with me at this time, being still with the drop off company. Talbir neglects to mention I did offer to collect the wheels from the tyre co. & bring them around to his house so he could inspect them in person. Is that not reasonable?
Refund
Talbir's offer of a full refund for the wheels returned in the same condition they were sold in was not essentially a genuine offer. He already new the wheels were stripped for refurbishment and not in their original condition. PrPrandall51” I think that it is up to the purchaser to return the wheels to you so that you can see the damage for yourself. But, if they are genuinely cracked, then they are unuable (without proper repair) so the original finish is irrelevant; it would have to be stripped off to effect a proper repair.
I think you should insist the wheels are returned but accept that the original finish is now stripped off.” makes a reasonable point here. In fact it was not really an offer unless I was expected to refurb them prior to returning them. Going back to my earlier point about possibly damaging them further, it would have been crazy to do so. Under these circumstances I do not think it was unreasonable to take them back in their partially refurbished state. At no point did Talbir hint at contributing for a welding repair – It was not until 14th October he mentioned any refund that had a basis in reality & for the sake of accuracy, he mentioned a partial refund.
Subject to Spit & Polishes advice welding was not even the answer.
Tone
This is the bit that worries me. I accept that Talbir is a good, honest bloke & have avoided making personal comments about him (or his friends.) He has not at any stage, however, expressed any regret for the situation I was in, nor adopted any conciliatory stance. His attitude throughout has been aggressive.
It is true there was a lot of heat in e-mails going back and forth from both parties. It riles me that this could have so easily been settled in a more grown up manner. Much of the heat was generated by Talbir completely misreading the tone of my initial email & immediately adopting a "how dare you" posture of outraged indignation. I am slightly aggrieved that also Talbir posted some of my E-mails on the thread, I wouldn't have done that without permission. Talbir to his credit did post some corrections re the warping etc but there are still some inaccuracies in his postings.
Talbir I am afraid your tone has continued. I went to your house on my own (my friends declined your kind invitation) within the agreed time and dropped your wheels off. I did say thanks, though apparently you may not have heard it. I also didn't count the money as I knew I could trust you.
Caveat Emptor
I feel that, emotions and anger apart, Talbir has acted worthily, if a little hysterically, here.
As a new member I am however amazed that a) many of you have adopted a "go take a hike approach" that although possibly legal (I am not an expert) is not a reasonable stance nor is it conducive to fair trade.
Nor did any of you hear my side of the story. You rushed to judgement after hearing only one side of the story. It is fair to say there may be some unscrupulous buyers out there but I'm not one of them. Should I just shrug my shoulders, say "it's just one of those things" and write off £300 spent on a set of irreparable wheels? Or for the sake of accuracy wheels that i would be advised not to repair.
What would you suggest for the future? Would it be reasonable in future that I should ask for an X-ray of a set of wheels prior to purchase? Or a warranty – slightly messy for the private seller perhaps? Or get a signed receipt saying the wheels are fit for the purpose sold? Perhaps I should have done.
Sure it makes sense to get a car professionally checked, which I did, prior to purchase, should you have to do it with wheels? Switches? Where would you draw the line?
What have I learnt from this? Not to trust in the condition of any goods I purchase, even from a recognised authority. Clearly I was mistaken to assume they are roadworthy unless otherwise described.
P.S.
To whoever posted the e-mail re my sourcing another set of Carat wheels. There were two sets of Carat Duchatelet wheels for sale on ebay. I'd bought one set (the one from a recognised expert who was closer to me by over 100 miles). That the seller's refurbisher had told me the repair was not worth pursuing. Bearing in mind I expected a refund it is not unreasonable to try to source some replacements? Your conspiracy theory is unfounded."
I have nothing more to say on the matter. Apart from Thanks Talbir
