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S210 diesel estate 2002, location of low pressure fuel pump?

OEM are Beru. Last one I bought was from ECP, it was about a tenner.

If you look carefully on the controller plug there's some tiny numbers. I discovered this after taking the insulation back at the GP end of the harness to check the colour...
 
I've managed to work out that no. 1 is blue/black, no. 2 is purple/black, no. 3 is red/black, and no. 4 is yellow/black. I've also checked the glow plugs at the plug end and was surprised to discover that I can only get an ohm reading on no. 4, which is the one I said earlier was off the scale when measured at the controller end of the plug lead. The other three don't read anything at all at the plug when I connect the ohmeter with the + wire to the head of the plug and the - wire to the cylinder head.

Things have just got a whole lot worse, as I soaked the plugs with penetrating oil at lunchtime, and noticed that the level had sunk a little, so I carefully set my torque wrench to 17nm, and put my 10mm socket on no. 1 plug. I then very carefully applied pressure. I was expecting the wrench to click, but it didn't, instead the wrench began to move very slowly. So I pulled it a little more, then reversed it to help loosen the plug in its thread. After that I was able to carefully slacken the plug and eventually I was able to turn the thing by hand. However, after turning gently for a couple of minutes it occurred to me that by now the plug should be clear of the threads and be pullable. So I took the socket off and tried pulling the plug. Nothing! No outward movement at all. So I noted the position of the centre electrode and turned the socket back half a turn. I then took the socket off and found that the centre electrode had not turned with the socket. So the outer sleeve of the plug is undone, but is no longer attached to the main core of the plug. The sleeve seems to still be partially attached to the core as it won't lift off it, and the core is stuck fast.

I've added lots more penetrating oil and made sure that the other three are also soaking nicely, and then packed up and come in out of the cold. I'll probably have a go at all of them tomorrow or Sunday, and I'll also see if no. 1 has loosened enough for me to pull it out with pliers/mole grips. Failing that I'll have to take the head off. From what I can see it's not difficult, but is a right pain in the rear end, not to say my aching back! After that I may see about getting the head heated up and try to undo the other plugs. Hopefully that will be enough to allow me to get them out. If not then it's off to a workshop with the head to see if professionals can get them out.

It never rains but it pours!!
 
Bad luck ... someone's sheared that plug in the past and left it.
Try the other 2 plugs?

If they come out OK, I'd leave the broken one in place, it'll start well enough on 3 working plugs.
 
Hello again,

Well, I managed to replace all four glow plugs with new Bosch ones, and the controller with one off Ebay today. It was an absolute bitch of a job, even though I used an extraction kit to get out the dead plugs. The warning light goes out now after about 5 seconds when I start the car. Unfortunately it comes back on again after a few seconds and stays on all the time. So can anyone tell me if there's an error code somewhere that needs clearing? I'll see about taking the car to an independent MB specialist next week if I can, so that I can get the STARS diagnostic done and see if I can find out what's wrong. Meanwhile, the car now starts on the key, which is something it didn't do before, so I'm able to drive it again. I've left off the engine covers for now in case I need to get access to the glow plugs again, but if I am able to clear the glow plug warning light then I'll put the covers on properly.
 
If plugs are now ok , it is controller which has damaged by the faulty plug(s)
 
mersum1es, the controller is new as well. I changed the plugs and controller at the same time. That's why I asked if there's a code somewhere that needs clearing. However, if it's the controller then I guess I got a duff one from Ebay. The trouble is, I'll only find out if it is by spending another £40 odd on a new one to replace the new one I've just fitted.
 
It doesn't need to go on STAR for this. No codes.

Put your original controller back on. As you bought the s/h Ebay one before you found most of the GPs were shot...

Also, leave the engine cover off. Then you'll be able to spot 'leak off' pipe leaks and 'Black death' in good time.
 
It wont be a glow plug issue. You either have air in the fuel lines or an injector is leaking off.

We tend to replace the pipes too as they do get brittle. You can find on you tube how to do a leak off test. Replace the LP pipes first and go from there.
 
BlackC55,

Thank you for your comments. I think you may be right about it not being glow plugs. Having replaced all 4 of them, and the controller with a new item I bought from Ebay I thought it would now work, and it did for a day. However, it's gone back to how it was before, with it only starting if I spray Cold Start into the inlet. So that leaves either air being sucked in to the system, or as you say, an injector is leaking off.

Would I be right in thinking that when you say an injector is leaking off, that the fuel should be spurting out all over the cylinder head? There's nothing like that happening, as I've taken a111r's advice and left the engine covers off so that I have better access to it all. Currently there's nothing leaking anywhere that I can see, so I am forced to the conclusion that air is being drawn into the system. If it is then I can only assume it's at the junction of the intake pipe with the top of the fuel filter. I've attached a photo below with the junction ringed.

Engine 1 small 2.jpg

I'll be replacing the O ring at that junction as soon as possible, and I'll then find out if it is something as simple as that.
 
It doesn't need to go on STAR for this. No codes.

Put your original controller back on. As you bought the s/h Ebay one before you found most of the GPs were shot...

Also, leave the engine cover off. Then you'll be able to spot 'leak off' pipe leaks and 'Black death' in good time.


a111r,

I think you may be right about it not being glow plugs. However, the controller I bought off Ebay wasn't second hand, but a brand new unit. What worries me is that after fitting the new plugs and the new controller, the system worked for a day. During the time that it worked the glow plug warning light was on all the time. Sadly, after a couple of journeys to pick family members up and drop them off I went shopping, and after leaving the car for around half an hour I came back to it, turned the key, the warning light went out after about 2 seconds, I twisted the key to turn the engine over, and it cranked for a long time, but didn't pick up. So I then opened the bonnet and sprayed Cold Start into it. After that it started, but once started the warning light didn't come on as it had done previously. So I'm left with the impression that while the light was on the system was working, but with it off the engine will only start with Cold Start. Which doesn't make any sense.

Since then I've removed the brand new controller and put the old one back on again, but before I refitted it I opened it up to see if any of the fusible links had burnt out. They were all in perfect condition, and indeed, with the cover off I was able to watch the relay close when I turned the key. Not only that, but it stayed closed for around a minute or so before opening again. So I guess the problem must be elsewhere, and BlackC55 has indicated that a diagnosis of air being sucked in to the fuel line may be correct. I've already replaced the two O rings at the low pressure pump, but I'm now going to replace the O ring at the top of the fuel filter, where the intake pipe connects to it, and see if that makes any difference.
 
BlackC55,

I replaced the complete fuel intake pipe that runs from the top of the fuel filter to the intake of the low pressure pump today. I then topped up the fuel filter casing and made sure to screw the top on as tightly as possible. I then turned the engine over and it failed to start. So I sprayed some Cold Start into the air intake and the engine then started almost immediately. I ran the engine for around five minutes, then turned it off. I then immediately tried to start it again, and it started. So I then shut the engine off and left it for around ten minutes while I put my tools away. I then tried to start the engine again, and this time it failed to start.

So now I'm back to square one. The engine once started runs very smoothly, and there's no loss of power in comparison with how it was before the starting problem surfaced. I have taken your advice about a leak off test, and ordered a leak off test kit. When this arrives I'll perform the test as per the Youtube videos you put up the link to. However, as there's no rough running or loss of power from the engine, I therefore wonder if it might be something else other than an injector that's at fault? Furthermore, from one of the Youtube videos you put up the link to it would appear that diesels will still normally start if one, or even two of the injectors are leaking fuel. As my engine won't start unless Cold Start is used, I'm beginning to wonder if there's a problem with the actual fuel.

When the starting problem first happened I called the AA, as I have HomeStart cover. When he arrived, the AA man was convinced I'd put petrol in the tank, but I know I filled it up from the diesel pump at my local Tescos on the morning of that day, and indeed after filling the tank I'd driven over 200 miles from my home in Borehamwood to the South Coast and back with no starting problems during that trip. With the AA man's help and some Easy Start I got the engine started and drove the car to a nearby garage. They replaced the fuel filter, but agreed with me that it had been filled with diesel, not petrol. After that, I told them I couldn't afford the £300 they wanted for replacing the low pressure pump, as they thought it was that causing the problem. So instead I started the car with some Cold Start I'd bought, and drove it home, where it's now sitting on my drive.

Since then I've replaced all four glow plugs, fitted a brand new controller, then removed it and put the original back in place, as there appeared to be nothing wrong with it when I dismantled it. I've also replaced the O ring on the output pipe that runs from the low pressure fuel pump to the high pressure pump. I've also dismantled the low pressure fuel pump to find that it literally looked like brand new inside, and now I've replaced the long intake fuel pipe that goes from the fuel filter to the low pressure pump, complete with new O rings. None of these has made the slightest difference to the problem of it not starting without the use of Cold Start.

You say that it could be an injector leaking, so that's next on the agenda, but as the engine ticks over very smoothly and picks up smoothly, I don't somehow think it is one, or even two injectors underperforming.

One peculiar thing is that after I'd fitted the new glow plugs and controller, the engine started correctly without the use of Cold Start, but the glow plug light came back on as soon as the engine started and stayed on the whole time the engine was running. This continued for most of the day, during which time I used the car several times. Later on that day when it failed to start I sprayed Cold Start into the air intake, and as soon as the engine began to pick up I watched to see if the glow plug light would come back on again. It didn't, so I don't know if this has any bearing on the problem, i.e. while the light was continuously on the engine would start normally, but when the light no longer came on (after flashing on for two seconds before I cranked the engine) the engine wouldn't start?

One thing I have noticed is that every time I open the top of the fuel filter, the chamber is only half full of fuel. I'm not sure how this could be, because at the time the engine is turned off the fuel filter chamber should be full of fuel, and unless it's being sucked back into the tank it should remain full until the next time it's started. I'm seriously considering fitting a non-return valve in the fuel line down by the tank, so that when the engine is turned off, no fuel can flow back down into the tank, but instead must stay in the fuel line and fuel filter chamber and hopefully keep it pretty much topped up ready for the next engine start.

Many thanks for your advice on this, I do appreciate it, and I must admit I'm finding it all very depressing having to work my way through all the possible causes of why the bloody thing doesn't want to start, yet runs perfectly once started.
 
BlackC55,

Can you tell me if the item ringed in this photo is a take off for a fuel pressure gauge? If it is then I might try to see if I can get hold of a compatible connector so that I can connect up a pressure gauge I've got. I don't know if you know what pressure the low pressure pump should put out, but if you do I'd be grateful if you could let me know what it should be. That way I'll be able to find out if there is a fault with the low pressure pump. When I dismantled it I found that it looked like brand new inside, with no wear marks from the gears in either the upper or lower surfaces of the pump body.

Fuel Intake Pipe 2.jpg
 
Hi everyone,

I need your advise I have my Mercedes Benz A180 Cdi 2015 diesel , and this glow plug light came on 1 month ago and still steady on dashboard, but no smoke from the engine or difficulties to start the engine. I have done diagnostic twice but with different people and they all said there is some computer glitch and the removed it. But after few hours this glow plug symbol is still pop in up :((( I'm a bit lost don't know what to do and just ordered glow plugs in case its them and also relay. I don't know if its any of that to be honest.

Will look forward to your responses
 
BlackC55,

You were absolutely right! No. 3 injector failed the leak off test in spectacular fashion. So now I need to know if I can just replace the nozzle or whether I need to replace the whole injector.

Leak Off Test results.jpg
 
Hi everyone,

I need your advise I have my Mercedes Benz A180 Cdi 2015 diesel , and this glow plug light came on 1 month ago and still steady on dashboard, but no smoke from the engine or difficulties to start the engine. I have done diagnostic twice but with different people and they all said there is some computer glitch and the removed it. But after few hours this glow plug symbol is still pop in up :((( I'm a bit lost don't know what to do and just ordered glow plugs in case its them and also relay. I don't know if its any of that to be honest.

Will look forward to your responses



Kristina,

You would probably be better off starting a new thread with your question rather than burying it in this one. That way more people will be able to see it and offer advice.
 
Kristina,

You would probably be better off starting a new thread with your question rather than burying it in this one. That way more people will be able to see it and offer advice.
Hi BobHUK,

Well I don’t know this system works and I just did what I can do
 
Hi BobHUK,

Well I don’t know this system works and I just did what I can do


Kristina, I've just created a new thread for you under the title "A180 Cdi 2015 diesel glow plug (on behalf of Kristina)" and posted it up under the 'Engine' section. If you go up one level from here you'll see it at the top of the list of threads in this section.
 
Kristina, I've just created a new thread for you under the title "A180 Cdi 2015 diesel glow plug (on behalf of Kristina)" and posted it up under the 'Engine' section. If you go up one level from here you'll see it at the top of the list of threads in this section.
Thank you so much appreciate it
 

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