S211 56 E320CDI - Glow Plugs Problem - or not

[Stocho]

Hi,

Facelift E320CDI estate struggles to start from cold. When it is below 5C (not -5C) it is a significant struggle for it. At current temperatures of about +10, just a slight struggle given that I press on accelerator as I start. After starting the "coil light" lights on and stays for about 1 minute. So the suspect is glowplugs.

Cheap error code reader reads: P0132 $07E8 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage Bank1 Sensor 1. This one appeared over the last few days as I cleared two errors a couple of days ago (the car had them for years even after services. Now just one - the above - but again the car had it for years).

I have heard on many occasions that glow plugs on CDI engines are almost optional. However at temperatures of about zero the car really struggles to start. Even at +10C if I disconnect the thick single wire lead that goes to the relay (I presume power supply) the car fails to start even after 10s of trying. So the experience is not too different to my old E300TD (now scrapped) which I run with just 3 of the 5 glowplugs for the last year of ownership.

Based on conversations with previous owner at the time of purchase he mentioned lots of similar trouble that he fully fixed. The history of repairs that seems to be relevant is shown below:

Date Mileage Description
Now 166
24/01/2013 114 Dealer, Replaced glow plug relay as dificulty starting from cold MA642 900 58 01 062423 / CONTROL UNIT
04/01/2013 113 Dealer, replaced O2 sensor MA003 542 70 18 Travel Sensor
31/05/2012 Supply and fit exhaust sensor GBP39
10/05/2012 97 O2 Exhaust Sensor replaced GBP195
01/05/2012 95 Dealer, replaced inlet port shut off motor
19/05/2011 81 Dealer, replace 6 glow plugs, including 2 broken off glowplugs


Is it likely to be glowplugs failure, relay failure or something else?

Most plugs are inaccessible. I can remove the nearest lead to the relay (presumingly the power lead). The second lead with many wires is quite difficult to reach but easier than all the glow plugs. If I get access to that lead will I be able to test how many / which glowplugs failed?


Given that at 81 miles when all glowplugs were replaced by the dealer 2 had broken off, does this mean that replacing them now will be a very difficult and expensive job? What sort of price should I expect for replacing all six?

Many thanks
Stocho

 

[KennyN]

On my CLS with the OM642 engine the plugs (Beru) were around £70 a set from ECP , replacement took around 30 mins with no dramas.

When it was my relay that was knackered the engine took a few more spins from cold to get it started , when it was the glow plugs the light came back on once started.

FWIW i would just replace all the plugs while i was at it , soak them in penetrating fluid prior to the task and remove them with the engine as warm as possible.

Kenny

 

[Smart320]

Make sure you use OE glowplugs not cheap Chinese ones. When I bought my ML the garage replaced all mine and the Controller with cheap not original equipment versions to get the warning lamp off. 2000 miles later same problem, replaced all 6 with MB supplied parts, all sorted. Hoping the controller keeps working, if warning light reappears will replace it.

 

[HB]

Just replaced all the glow plugs and the relay on our C320 CDI. It had similar issues to yours but now starts bang on immediately.

 

[Stocho]

Thanks a lot for so quick replies on Christmas Day!

One glowplug:
nearest right (referencing relative to the person standing in front of the car facing the car) is kind of easily accessible.

Two more are somewhat obstructed but I suppose could be changed given the very right tools without removing anything else first:
back right somewhat obstructed by cable bus that I understand goes to the computer.
back left somewhat obstructed by Turbo Actuator

Three are obstructed by black plastic rigid airpipes that connect sides of the engine with the turbo ans some related wiring. So that has to come off and possibly something else before these three can be removed.


So unless I am lucky and just the visible plugs are bust it is probably not a DIY job for me. Though given the current sale at carparts4less the price of BERU plugs (are these the best?) at just £71.26 for all six is very attractive...

How much do you think an independent will charge for replacing? Is it a good idea to buy these now given the Christmas sale and ask the garage to install or do garages have a good price on these any day?

Also, can I test them from the relay as currently I am not sure at all how many, if any are bust?

 

[Smart320]

Would strongly suggest you change all six, if one or two fail then the rest are usually not far behind according to my local Indi. The extra labour involved I would expect to be under an hour and my garage charges £60 ph plus vat

 

[Markssl]

Mine was a pig to start when cold so I changed all plugs and the relay. Back to normal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KennyN]

I was quoted £275 to replace all the plugs from a local recommended indy , if one or more sheared then there was an extra cost involved to get a man in to remove the remnants so i figured that i was more than capable of breaking them myself and getting a man in should he be required.

It is a very easy job to do , the removal of the intakes is a 5 min job and no specialist tools required to take the plugs out providing they are not stuck.

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Whilst you are at it then i would replace the air filters for the sake of another 15 mins work.

Kenny

 

[Smart320]

£ 275 sounds about right for the total cost including GPs, paid about £250 just before Christmas. My ref to extra hour or so was the additional time to change all rather the one that had failed

 

[GordonTarling]

Just a pointer - when starting, don't touch the throttle pedal - the ECU handles the startup sequence.

 

[mersum1es]

Just a pointer - when starting, don't touch the throttle pedal - the ECU handles the startup sequence.

It should not affect, according the WIS pedal position is ignored during start sequence...

 

[Stocho]

I was quoted £275 to replace all the plugs from a local recommended indy , if one or more sheared then there was an extra cost involved to get a man in to remove the remnants so i figured that i was more than capable of breaking them myself and getting a man in should he be required.

Thanks to everyone for replies during holidays.

That sounds like dealer prices based on an invoice in the car history file..

The cost of replacement apart from extraction of 2 broken glowplugs was £261 (+VAT) - and this actually included some of the costs of dealing with broken glowplugs such as turbocharger removal and numerous gasket and O ring replacements.

Just Labour+plugs (and Labour still included turbocharger removal and other work to provide improved access for broken plug extraction) was under £200 + VAT.

As a side question: Strangely there are 3L of antifreeze as well on the job invoice (why would they do it as part of glowplugs replacement?). Did they replace the coolant at the same time? AS the car has done 168kmiles it would be due for coolant replacement. Does it mean it does not need to be done? Is 3L all the coolant the car has or have they just topped up to compensate for loosing some during the plug extraction procedure?

 

[Stocho]

Hi thanks to everyone for replying.

I have tried to have a go. I manged to remove (and for now put them back so that insects etc do not get in) 5 of the six glow plugs. One would not bulge but it reads under 1 Ohm - so it is working. Nevertheless I will buy XCP One today and will try again. XCP ONE Dual Action Can 400ml


The area below the plastic air pipes is quite drained in oil. The source of that is probably a small pipe that goes into that huge air pipe which is not held by any clip or anything - a very gentle push with one finger was needed to push it out (the culprit joint is circles on the pictures below). Is it how it is supposed to be?


So I will be replacing glow plugs, and at the same time air filters. Does it make sense to replace fuel filter at the same time as I now have access to it as well? One of the clips on he fuel filter is a standard screw-driver driven one. The other one appear to require special tools. Do I buy another screwdriver driven clip as I do not know how to replace that other clip? Are there any dangers in changing fuel filter - such as air getting in etc or is it a safe DIY job?

What else should I change?

Thanks a lot for the great advice!

 

[Stocho]

...

and two more questions:
1. When removing the plugs there was lots of grease and dust. So it is very likely that some chunks fell into the engine. Could they damage it?
2. The video shows that "Special Ceramic Grease" should be applied to them. Where to get it from as ECP do not appear to have it? Is it to be applied only to the thread and how much?

 

[KennyN]

Looks like someone has already replaced the fuel filter , hence the Jub Jub clip so for the moment i would just leave it unless you have the maint records and it hasnt been replaced for a long while.

I got the ceramic grease from eBay , HIGH TEMP TEMPERATURE WHITE CERAMIC GREASE LUBRICANT NOT COPPER SLIP 0019894251 | eBay

I wouldnt worry about the dust etc. as if it has gone into the bores then there is not much you can do about it now and as long as it wasnt stones and rocks then i very much doubt it will cause any issues.

Just watch the tightening torque when replacing the plugs as you dont want to over-do it.

If you were local then you could use some of the grease i have as i dont see me needing it anytime soon.

Kenny

 

[Stocho]

The fuel filter was last changed December 2012 when the car had 113kmiles. Now the car has 166kmiles. Does it mean it needs changing?

ECP offers a number of brands for Pollen / Air/ Fuel filters. In particular it offers crossland / FRAM/ Mann / Bosch? Which brand is the best?

For glow plugs Hidria / Beru / NGK (with NGK most expensive). I presume Beru is the best?

 

[Codger49]

For my cars, no diesels, though, I go for Mann filters and NGK plugs.

 

[Sergen]

Hello, so I have a MB E-Class year 2006 with 280CDI engine V6 with 190HP and I have problems with glow plugs and glow plugs control unit, so my only question is what kind of glow plugs this engine needs, ceramic or metal glow plugs. I will upload I think the original mb control unit and please if you can tell me for what kind of glow plugs this control unit is made for, ceramic or metal because i bought new bosch glow plugs and new control unit and this new control unit damaged all 6 new glow plugs, please help me!!!

 

[Sergen]

Hello, so I have a MB E-Class year 2006 with 280CDI engine V6 with 190HP and I have problems with glow plugs and glow plugs control unit, so my only question is what kind of glow plugs this engine needs, ceramic or metal glow plugs. I will upload I think the original mb control unit and please if you can tell me for what kind of glow plugs this control unit is made for, ceramic or metal because i bought new bosch glow plugs and new control unit and this new control unit damaged all 6 new glow plugs, please help me!!!

So the new control unit i bought was cheap not from beru, it was from stark, thanks!