Self Build Gaming PC!

[glojo]

You are missing the point John, everything you say apart from gaming can be done on a doggy old windows 98 pc.

If you want to run the latest games on a PC it requires almost continuous expensive hardware updates in order to keep up with the gaming requirements.

....Or buy a console and get up to 5 years use before having to upgrade it. And yes, on a chipped console you wount be needing to pay for games either as you can download them and burn them onto a CD using a minimum spec PC.

There really is very little to justify a gaming PC nowadays (and I never thought I'd be saying that).

I agree with you. I believe it very expensive to buy a PC SOLELY for gaming.

Is there anyone here that only has a gaming console? I would suggest the answer would be no, and I wonder what the average PC is? 486DX, or will it have been upgraded within the last two years? (after 1998) If your going to buy a new PC then I would suggest you think about what you want, then see what's out there to meet those needs.

If you only want to play games then perhaps buy a console. If you can afford both then go for it.

I also suspect that a good few of us actually play games on our PC?

Out of interest Spike what is the specification of your PC? No cheating

I accept the theory but in practice we might not do what we suggest? Perhaps we own a PC that can play most of the latest games but we WANT a console! I have absolutely NO problem with that. None at all.


John

 

[glojo]

I accept this thread is solely about a gaming PC, but I thought this a valid point!

As I am typing this message I have started to archive ALL my 35mm film.

The scanner (Epson 3590) is simply eating the negatives, the computer is converting the image into a file of whatever size I require. Quite a memory hungry operation, but at the same time, I am typing this and listening to music in Dolby 7.1? or similar. All on my PC.

I still believe game consoles are worth considering, I am simply pointing out what else can be done with the PC.

John the off topic waffler

 

[Sp!ke]

In PC terms, you can buy a brand spanking PC from a major vendor with everything including a lcd panel for around the £300 mark now. This will handle everything the average person will throw at it bar proper gaming and will last at least 3 years. Yes, it will be able to play some games but it isn't what I would term a gaming PC.

Now a full on gaming PC will cost you thousands of pounds with the graphics processor costing over £600-700 alone and if you want to remain at the forefront of PC technology to gain the full potential of the latest games then over three years you'll be having to replace each and every component possibly multiple times.

So over three years you can either:-

Buy a cheap PC and separate state of the art console for a total of £600

or

Build and maintain a gaming PC and keep it up to date constantly for £3000-£4000+

As someone who used to upgrade his PC every three months in order to stay leading edge, I don't have to think about this dilemma for very long.

FWIW, I now only use laptops both at home and at work for general PC stuff. My work laptops are new and very powerful (its my job to evaluate them).

My home PC's are all 2-3+ year old laptops, the oldest being a P2 600 - absolutely fine for word-processing, browsing and email etc.

 

[SEM]

I have to use high spec PC's for my 3D work, but the software i stay 12 months behind development, till they fix all the bugs. I update every 2-3 years and dont see the point to have the latest hardware.. Loads of RAM i say! oh and a half decent graphics card

 

[BTB 500]

I've always had a console for gaming, and a PC for everything else. The PC is on a desk in an office - ideal if you want to concentrate on something ... filing for household papers, room for scanner, printer, etc., storage for printer paper (plain, and various sizes and grades of photo), ink cartridges, etc. etc.

Console is in the sitting room, uses the TV's biggish screen and surround sound speakers. We use the console as a DVD player, so it's used for watching movies etc. as well as gaming (OH and both kids use it, not just me). Games are guaranteed to run with zero hassle about hardware compatibility etc. I bought my PS2 on UK launch day (nearly 6 years ago) and it's still going strong ... with plenty of new games. Value for money is unbeatable, IMO.

 

[glojo]

I have to use high spec PC's for my 3D work, but the software i stay 12 months behind development, till they fix all the bugs. I update every 2-3 years and dont see the point to have the latest hardware.. Loads of RAM i say! oh and a half decent graphics card

I agree totally.

I tend to upgrade every two or three years. There is NO WAY the software I am using at present would run on anything like a P2 forget it. In fact without dual core the thing would grind to a standstill!

I am NOT disagreeing with Spikes main point, but hopefully without a monitor you could build an excellent gaming PC for £1200 which is wayyyyyy above the price of a games console, but the PC allows you to do sooo much more. (which is NOT what this thread is about) For pure gaming on the grounds of cost then perhaps the console.

Spike
This is a question and NOT a statement.

The latest Flight Simulators allow GPS location, real time weather effects both visual as well as physical, local actual scenery with of course the real-time weather conditions. Then there is multi monitor function, capability to connect moving seat, proper yoke etc etc. Then there is interaction Worldwide with other 'pilots' including communications. Has the latest console got this capability. This is a question and NOT a them against us type statement.

John

 

[Sp!ke]

The latest Flight Simulators allow GPS location, real time weather effects both visual as well as physical, local actual scenery with of course the real-time weather conditions. Then there is multi monitor function, capability to connect moving seat, proper yoke etc etc. Then there is interaction Worldwide with other 'pilots' including communications. Has the latest console got this capability. This is a question and NOT a them against us type statement.

John

I think this sort of "gaming" is unique to the rather expensive world of flying. This is cetainly not gaming as I know it.

That said, I see no reason why you cant do any of these things on an XBox 360. Whatever way you look at it however its going to cost you.

Quite why you'd want GPS in a flight SIM is beyond me... surely the GPS data would say that you are at ground level at 0mph situated in your living room

Here's a funny snippet for you talking about dual core PC's.. many dual core PC's are shipped with the dual core element turned off in the Bios. More often than not people never realise and leave it 'as is' in single core mode. So if any of you have Dual Core PC's - how many CPU's do you see in Task Manager?

As you can see below, I'm not using my laptop right now

 

[glojo]

Hi Sp!ke,
Unaccustomed as I am about going off topic (Sorry Benz Commander) I am here to pick your brains. Should a dual processor show two CPU's? Or has it got one CPU that has a dual dual function.

Incidentally using the main TV as a game playing monitor would be a non negotiable big no, no in our family!!!

John

 

[Sp!ke]

It should show two CPU's in device manager... sounds like yours might not be turned on

My screenshot was of an 8 CPU machine.

 

[scotth_uk]

A recent article on video cards bang for buck - might be of use to some:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/articl....org/article.pl?sid=06/09/27/0346244&from=rss

BTW John, with the Xbox 360 you can go online, browse the microsoft gaming realm, download playable demos to your machine and enjoy them. I actually thought it was a very smart system. Get the customers hooked on the games with one free level!

 

[glojo]

It should show two CPU's in device manager... sounds like yours might not be turned on

Is this where I now refuse to acknowledge your post

I reckon your right!!!

 

[Sp!ke]

No, this is where I do this with a wry grin on my face

In fact without dual core the thing would grind to a standstill!

Best turn it on fast John before it grinds to a standstill

 

[glojo]

No, this is where I do this with a wry grin on my face




Best turn it on fast John before it grinds to a standstill

It is up at the 80 - 90% and it's a Pentium IV 3.1 so in fairness we were talking about a Pentium 2 600! Okay I'll carry on digging. I posted a picture of the processor settings.

John

 

[imadoofus]

If you want to run the latest games on a PC it requires almost continuous expensive hardware updates in order to keep up with the gaming requirements.

....Or buy a console and get up to 5 years use before having to upgrade it.

But it's worth pointing out that the reason for this continual need to upgrade the PC is that the games' performance and graphics are continually improving. Having a console may be cheaper, but after you've had it for five years you'll be playing games written for five-year-old technology - even the new games.

We've got both. A 3.4Ghz pc with all sorts of boxes and wires inside and it palys everything I want just fine. Also got a PS2 (unchipped), and it again, it plays what I want it to (except GT4 becasue some scrote employed for a single day by our landscapers stole it - but then I couldn't be ****d to replace it because it's a bit too anal for me)

PJ

 

[glojo]

No, this is where I do this with a wry grin on my face




Best turn it on fast John before it grinds to a standstill

Looks like I am getting confused with all this modern techno speak!!

I respect the very high proportion of techno wizards on this excellent forum and respect what they tell me.

It looks like I'm confused about hyperthreading as opposed to dual core!!

I just nipped into the BIOS and it clearly states that Hyper Threading is ENABLED! Is that different to dual core? Have I got completely confused with this modern technology?

More to the point would my computer grind to a halt without it. Intel Pentium 3.4 (not 3.1) processor that is running at between 80 - 90% when running the scanner in its transferring mode of negatives into high quality detailed pictures, plus all the other stuff I have running.

Would you recommend dual core as opposed to hyperthreading??

Sorry for the confusion.

John

 

[Sp!ke]

Hyperthreading is not dual core.

Hyperthreading was dropped some time ago for the dual core CPU's. I believe that it was used in the Intel 965, and 955 range and maybe some others.

However, a correctly configured Hyperthreading PC can and should pretend to have two processors to the operating system.

So you should see two CPU's in Task manager if it was built corectly. What I often see with these machines is that the OEM image shipped by the manufacturer was originally built on a non hyperthreading machine or non dual core machine before being sysprepped and tweaked to run on a hyperthreading machine. If this image has ever been on a single core machine it cannot be used effecively on a dual core or hyperthreading PC without a great deal of jiggery pokery.

What I am saying here is that if you want to fully exploit those extra clock cycles than you wont be able to do it using the OS supplied with your PC... You need to rebuild it from scratch using a proper version version of windows. You cant fix it by reapplying the image that it came with.

You could say that you have been ripped off... personally I would suggest that your PC vendor/manufacturer just didnt understand or appreciate the difference.

 

[glojo]

What I am saying here is that if you want to fully exploit those extra clock cycles than you wont be able to do it using the OS supplied with your PC... You need to rebuild it from scratch using a proper version version of windows. You cant fix it by reapplying the image that it came with.

You could say that you have been ripped off... personally I would suggest that your PC vendor/manufacturer just didnt understand or appreciate the difference.

Hi Sp!ke,
First off a million apologies to Benz Commander and should I carry on picking your brains via pm. The system was built from scratch and I purchased Windows XP Professional which was installed once the computer was built! There has never been an image installed on this computer.

I am NOT disagreeing with you, I appreciate what your saying. If you were giving out duff gen then there are any number of computer wizards on this forum that would soon point it out. (I am sure your being more than helpful, and thanks for the advice).

Whenever we upgrade, the older model goes down the pecking order of our family tree! It looks like a rebuild might be in order?

Oh and the vendor did NOT rip me off , it is my fault for not getting hyperthreading\dual core termology correct.

John

 

[rees_A]

If you have a decent graphics card then a pc will kick a games consoles **** all day long. Games consoles cannot be upgraded unless you buy a newer model. ie, you may be able to play games for 5 years but the technology used to display those games will be up to five years old. A decent graphics card costing about £300 will perform at a much faster rate than any console and you can always get a new one in a couple of years. Games consoles are only updated approx every 4-5 years.(Most modern graphics cards have faster clock speeds and graphics refresh rates etc than the new ps3 that hasn't come out yet. Add to that a decent processor and lots of memory and you are talking approx 10 x processing power of a games console that hasn't even been released.

I got a PC for my kid(Specced the parts myself), cost approx £700 without screen and it will outperform all current and new consoles for the next 5-6 years. If in a year or so he wants an upgrade, I can get an X1900 Crosfire card which will probably be £100 by then and increase graphics performance by £60 percent. What games console can you do that to!!!

 

[glojo]

No, this is where I do this with a wry grin on my face




Best turn it on fast John before it grinds to a standstill

Boy how embarrassing. It WAS TURNED ON!!

I am as thick as three short planks. I thought there would be two seperate CPU charts. I never realised there were alongside each other. So yes, a lesser system would perhaps have ground to a halt

I accept your justifiable dig at me and I'm simply being cheeky. It was my fault, I should have seen the break between the two charts.

In this picture the computer is not working as hard as this morning!

 

[w124coupe]

Looks like you need to sort out a driver for the Ethernet Controller while you are in Device Manager!