Service History Issues

[BigJase88]

Your correct, and furthermore, when selling my 5 year old MB with over £11,000 of options when purchased new, I was offered the book price for the exact same poverty spec car purchased with no options whatsoever.
We're being taken for a ride with car dealers.

Yeah my CLA has 5grand of options on it. Trade in value exact same as poverty spec.

 

[Teego]

I can only comment on my experience when selling my AMG last September. I had various enquiries and the first question from every single one was, does it have FMBSH? I know that had I answered in the negative, all interest in the car would have been lost, or silly offers would have followed.
As it happened, I had a full printout of all service work carried at by main dealers and some asked me to mail it to them for proof. I had no problem with that, but when it comes to main dealers or indys doing repair work, that is another story. Unless you have those repair invoices, how can you prove such an such work has been done prior to you having bought the car. This GDPR takes things too far. Why not just black marker pen out any sensitive info of the previous owner and pass it on? Then the car can have a complete and full history.

I don't care how many invoices for service parts are thrust in front of me, self servicing devalues an AMG. I wouldn't buy one and I'm guessing most of the prospective buyers of my car would have put the phone down had I said, no it hasn't been serviced either at a Mercedes specialist or the main dealers. I did it myself.
It may well be the servicing has been done perfectly well by the owner, but I'm not chancing it. The cars are dear enough to begin with and there is no warranty with a private sale.
My next car will have either FMBSH or a mix of MB specialist history with the car., and that is how I will continue to look after the car. I believe the following owner after me will expect the same.

In defence of Mr Teego, he will admit his AMG is old now, 17 years at least, and therefore no point in paying inflated main dealer service rates. But had I been looking for a CLS55, I'd still want MB specialist servicing in the service book if I was to even consider going to look at it.

My obsessive records are for me not a future owner. They help me plan future maintenance and tell my garage exactly what to do and when.

 

[thomasyan777]

I share your frustration.

In my experience it's a rarity for a dealers to complete the DSB accurately or completely. Getting it corrected can be a nightmare as well. I therefore insist on being given the printed ESS completed by the servicing technician as proof of what has (or often hasn't) been done.

DSB is pretty worthless as, sadly, it cannot be relied on as an accurate record without other paperwork to back it up.

This is a raw topic at the moment.... one of our MBs is due a service under ServicePlan this month. I just know I'm going to have to spend time sorting out the horlicks that results.

Thanks AREA!

That's why I want to build something that return the ownership of service history back to the car owners.


We upload the receipts/ services we paid for and ensure it's as accurate as possible, while still having the benefit of digital record (easy to share & preserve etc)


Would you use it?

 

[thomasyan777]

I recently traded the SLC300 in to a dealer who shredded all my service paperwork due to GDPR laws, said he could not use anything with my details on it. Most of the service work was outwith the MB network, so would not show on Mercedes digital systems either.
He did not appear bothered by any of this and I wondered how important a documented service history really is. The car sold within a week, so I'm guessing not as important as we all think?

This is so annoying!
Basically all the effort has been thrown away & the car has lost its previous great service history!

That's why I want to build this platform to have the functionality to block car owners personal info. So when the history is passed onto car dealers, they can keep passing onto the next owner without any GDPR concerns.


If this platform exists, would you upload your receipts?

 

[thomasyan777]

In principle it sounds like a very good idea but you would need to identify who your target audience is, car enthusiasts? The general public? Dealers? etc. In my opinion I think you would need to get dealers on board with such a platform in addition to private car owners to make it viable. I would say that a large proportion of service documentation gets lost as vehicles pass through car dealers for the reasons mentioned above, probably more than private owners not keeping/losing documentation. This is likely down to two reasons:

1) The dealer does not have the correct administrative tools to correctly redact information from documents in a way that allows them to remain compliant with GDPR. Therefore the documentation is securely shredded which mitigates the risk of personal information being leaked.

2. The administrative effort in redacting the documentation is likely quite high. Dealers tend to have a high turnover of vehicles therefore going through and redacting information from documents for each vehicle they buy in and sell is likely quite challenging, epecially for smaller dealers that don't have a pool of admin staff like larger companies.

If you could address the above then I think the idea would be great and could pitched to dealers in addition to the public. I don't have any stats but I imagine the majority of joe public will simply trade their car in for a new one rather than attempt to sell it themselves privately. Mainly due to people not having the confidence as there are various scams/risks that come with selling a car privately. Therefore I imagine there will be a higher percentage of cars passing back through dealers than private sales and therefore the potential risk of paperwork being lost in the name of GDPR compliance is higher. If your target audience is simply car enthusiasts/the public then I think it would have limited impact. Just my opinion of course, I'm not trying to bash your idea!

Great thought process!

I totally agree with your points apart from the car owners.


If you really looked after your car then you wouldn't want the dealer just throw your paperwork away? At least I would hope those files will be passed along with the car with its new owners.


Then I would upload my documents & pass onto dealer/ next owner.


Wouldn't you?

 

[thomasyan777]

Paper is best. Printed receipts for everything down to lightbulbs. All info on spreadsheet cross referenced to date and mileage.

I can imagine it would take a lot of effort.

If I could build a platform & help every car owner to achieve this level of archive, would you support this?

 

[thomasyan777]

Ahhhh so you want input to a platform you want to build.

A few thoughts:

Have you Googled it? There are some online services already doing similar things.

If you as an owner don’t trust Mercedes - a large and very well established business which just take such things seriously - with this data, then why would other owners trust your platform with this data?

If one of your primary concerns as an owner is that your data is not safe, accurate and available with Mercedes, how will you assure owners about that their data is safe, accurate and available with you?

If another of your primary concerns as an owner is that Mercedes might make a mistake which has a negative impact on your cars value, how will you make sure that owners don't make the same mistake?

Further still there is a financial incentive for owners to make a “mistake” which has a positive impact on their car’s value, so how would you reassure future owners (buyers) that that is not the case?

How long would you commit to providing a fully resilient and secure service? Some people keep their cars a very long time, and others sell and so will you export the data to new or current owners.”?

How will you verify ownership initially and later when the vehicle has changed hands, to make sure that someone requesting access to records has a legitimate claim on that data?

How will will you monetise it, will it be monthly payments, advertising, selling the data to interested third parties, etc and if you can’t cover costs and the business folds then what happens to the data?

How much would be people be willing to pay for such a service, if they already have digital and paper records, and can photograph and store paperwork online for free through Google, Microsoft, etc?

If the owner doesn’t completely or successfully redact their personal information, who would be responsible for detecting and remediating it, and who would be liable for the risk?

Good luck with your venture

Thanks Bobby! These are great questions!

To avoid people falsifying any record, I want to use photo to backup every data point. And I think falsifying a photo would be much more costly vs typing whatever you want. I know this wont achieve 100％ the service history authentication, but if we can get to 80-90％ accuracy, that's a good starting point.


Once all these histories are on the platform, we can easily leverage these data to provide benefit for car owners, list a few:

1. auto reminder for your next MOT/ service
2. easy to share with potential buyers & transfer ownership to next owner
3. block personal info to adhere to GDPR while ensure the history follows this car
4. work with insurance company to provide further insurance discount if you have a 'A grade' service history


In the end, I want it to be free for all car owners to use, making money from ads probably to survive. Data are all fully secured adhere to GDPR. Later stage if I can work with insurance company to get discount, I will get paid from there.

What do you think? Would you upload your receipts onto this platform after knowing this?

 

[thomasyan777]

You might need to get out more Mr Teego!.....!

Id be interested to know if those of you with a full and fastidiously recorded service history actually do ever get more in PX at a Mercedes main dealer than those with a patchy and difficult to prove history......In my experience (including 17 years working in a main new car dealer) the answer is generally no. It seems to affect values in private sales more and even then only when its selling to an enthusiast. Current condition seems more important to most than its history.
Even in my current game (caravans) we have to destroy all the paper records due to GDPR....this effectively often means that there is no record at all as many manufacturers have no digital system and many customers use indies anyway who cant add a service to the factory system......To my mind GDPR causes more issues than it solves!!

Agreed on the GDPR point ALFA, hence I really want to build something to help us preserve these valuable histories while protect the personal info - having a functionality to block out when uploading.

On the resale value topic, I believe the asking price of a FSH model vs a partial service history model can differ 10-20％ according to a study done by Kwik Fit.
Maybe this is only for private sale??

I am very surprised to see there is no value difference when the dealer taking a trade-in vehicle?


I never trade in as I know it's a rip-off of my car's value. But the ones who did please give us a few more examples if possible?


Much appreciated

 

[thomasyan777]

I take service records to extreme lengths and I can say that it makes no measurable or meaningful difference to actual resale value in practice. It might help secure a sale, but the only time someone would pay more is the rare event that someone is so keen to get a car with perfect history that they check and are happy to spend more than the rest.

According to a study of Kwik Fit, the same car without FSH could devalue 10-20％ vs a FSH car.

For my own experience (all private buy & sell), FSH or any extra work makes your asking price much more stronger. There for it definitely helped me to sell for a higher price as there were no excuses for the buyer to ask for any discount on my asking price.

Isn't this the same for everyone?
I can't comment for trade ins or selling to dealers directly, keen to know everyone's experience on this!

 

[thomasyan777]

I don't disagree in principle, but it does vary considerably depending on the type of motor, age, and type of sale.

According to a study of Kwik Fit, the same car without FSH could devalue 10-20％ vs a FSH car.

For my own experience (all private buy & sell), FSH or any extra work makes your asking price much more stronger. There for it definitely helped me to sell for a higher price as there were no excuses for the buyer to ask for any discount on my asking price.

Isn't this the same for everyone?
I can't comment for trade ins or selling to dealers directly, keen to know everyone's experience on this!

 

[thomasyan777]

I had to deal with one last week. The previous main dealer service had the distance wrong. The owner must have had the display set to kilometres, but the servicing dealer incorrectly assumed it was miles. Fortunately I could corroborate it with an MoT certificate to prove they were mistaken. Had to be corrected directly in Portugal as the time window for local correction had passed. Rare though. First one I’ve had to get resolved

Same experience here! Not my car but one of my friend's car had 100,000 on the digital service record from the dealer where it should be only 10,000 miles.

He had to go through a huge hassle to get it corrected otherwise his resale value would have plummeted!

 

[thomasyan777]

I’ve heard of it happening only once before and that was a kilometre/mile mistake. Mistakes happen but I think it’s rare B too.

Same experience here! Not my car but one of my friend's car had 100,000 on the digital service record from the dealer where it should be only 10,000 miles.

He had to go through a huge hassle to get it corrected. Otherwise his car resale value would have plummeted!

 

[thomasyan777]

I can only comment on my experience when selling my AMG last September. I had various enquiries and the first question from every single one was, does it have FMBSH? I know that had I answered in the negative, all interest in the car would have been lost, or silly offers would have followed.
As it happened, I had a full printout of all service work carried at by main dealers and some asked me to mail it to them for proof. I had no problem with that, but when it comes to main dealers or indys doing repair work, that is another story. Unless you have those repair invoices, how can you prove such an such work has been done prior to you having bought the car. This GDPR takes things too far. Why not just black marker pen out any sensitive info of the previous owner and pass it on? Then the car can have a complete and full history.

I don't care how many invoices for service parts are thrust in front of me, self servicing devalues an AMG. I wouldn't buy one and I'm guessing most of the prospective buyers of my car would have put the phone down had I said, no it hasn't been serviced either at a Mercedes specialist or the main dealers. I did it myself.
It may well be the servicing has been done perfectly well by the owner, but I'm not chancing it. The cars are dear enough to begin with and there is no warranty with a private sale.
My next car will have either FMBSH or a mix of MB specialist history with the car., and that is how I will continue to look after the car. I believe the following owner after me will expect the same.

In defence of Mr Teego, he will admit his AMG is old now, 17 years at least, and therefore no point in paying inflated main dealer service rates. But had I been looking for a CLS55, I'd still want MB specialist servicing in the service book if I was to even consider going to look at it.

Thanks for sharing AMGeed!

I get your point of GDPR being too far. Hence I want to build something that you can block your personal info when uploading your receipt, so that alk the records are only related to the car itself. Then it can passed onto each of the future owners forever without GDPR concerns.

What's even better, even if you go to some indie garages who dont have access to MD system, you can still upload the receipts yourself & keep the service history chain unbroken. In this case you can go wherever you want & not worry about a missing record somewhere in the future.

Do you think it's a good idea & address some of the pain points?

 

[thomasyan777]

Your correct, and furthermore, when selling my 5 year old MB with over £11,000 of options when purchased new, I was offered the book price for the exact same poverty spec car purchased with no options whatsoever.
We're being taken for a ride with car dealers.

This is so wrong in my opinion!

Did you argue with the dealer? And what was their reasoning that 0 options car has the same value of 11k options car???

 

[thomasyan777]

Yeah my CLA has 5grand of options on it. Trade in value exact same as poverty spec.

This is very wrong IMO!

Did you argue with the dealer?
And what was their reasoning of 0 options car has the same value of 5k options car??

 

[DrNick]

You can get the worst of both worlds by just taking a photo of every receipt and storing them in electronic form in a place of your choice.
Eg a Dropbox directory or iCloud. The data is then yours and yours alone and you are not trusting some unknown or even know device provider. I think we’re trying to overthink this.

 

[ALFAitalia]

It may well be the servicing has been done perfectly well by the owner, but I'm not chancing it.

That implies that the dealer does everything that he says he does ( and charges you for) and the mechanic (well they are fitters these days....car mechanics that can actually fix parts rather than just replace them are really no more) and they have any more skill that a good DIYer. I did my ALFA cambelt the other month....took me nearly all day to do a two to two and half hour job (by the book)....why? Because I did it properly. Cleaning everything (including all the engine mounts and covers Id removed etc)...I set all the torque perfectly using Inch/pound wrench. checking everything else that I could not usually see with the engine together etc....etc..... The main dealer servicing your AMG will have has get in done in a certain book time to make money and meet targets. He will do the job.....but as well and as carefully as I would do it myself?....I really doubt it. He just does not have the time. 17 years selling cars and a few spannering them both professionally and now as a little sideline means that I have little trust in the quality of the dealer average car fitter. Indies are rather better IMO as its their own rep, money and business they are risking.

 

[ALFAitalia]

You mean IF they are still employed at the same place.... stuff turnover among salespeople working in car dealerships is among the highest from all market sectors in the UK.

True.....but I was the exception......I was 17 years selling VW and Audi in the same branch of the same dealer. Only a couple of mechanics were there as long as me....even the owner changed....twice!

 

[BlackC55]

DSB history does not include other repair work either.

 

[190]

If you really looked after your car then you wouldn't want the dealer just throw your paperwork away? At least I would hope those files will be passed along with the car with its new owners.

When I traded in my 190e after owning it for 21 years, I gave the salesman a comprehensive service history including all replacements and repairs. The 190e was bought by a mechanic who worked at the same dealership. Sometime after, I was talking to the mechanic about how he was getting on with my old 190e and he asked me when the transmission fluid was last changed. I said it's on the service history. He hadn't been given it, the salesman had dumped the lot. Fortunately I had it all recorded on a spreadsheet so I e-mailed him the file.