Slightly worried about crossing red traffic lights - I have mitigating circumstances in my favour

[MSG2004]

Today, we went out for our click and collect shopping from Tesco.
Their site on an industrial site
As I came off the high-speed dual carriage and approached the lights about 100 yards down the road they were
already red. It's a three-way traffic signal. Around that time of the day, very few vehicles approached these lights from the side I came
but the other two sets of lights are usually relatively busy ie a lot more busier than my side of the approach.

Iintially thought the lights did not turn green when they should have and then another came up behind me - I confirmed our side of the traffic lights
did miss at least another two times making it three in all at least. Then there was another car in the line up behind me - no one sounded their horn but
I was sure the lights at the time were faulty as I'd witnessed cars on the other to lights as stationary.

Therefore, as my view of the other two lights was very good and my side was not working and I'd give it reasonable time to judge this, I slowly turned right at the intersection with extreme caution ensuring no other traffic would have to brake because of my car and then proceeded down the road

On the way back we usually go a different route
but I decided to drive past and have a look and the lights were operational on all three sides.

Thinking about it. As I waited for what IMO
a reasonable time and ensured that my lights at the time were stuck on the red, I should be ok even if someone caught me with their dash cam. In my defence. (I was on a one-way section of the road, therefore no opportunity to turn back)

 

[st13phil]

Highway Code rule #176:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36

Basically, if you are reported for the offence of crossing the stop line while the light showed red you would have to argue that the traffic lights were faulty and hope the Magistrate accepts the argument.

 

[MSG2004]

Highway Code rule #176:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36

Basically, if you are reported for the offence of crossing the stop line while the light showed red you would have to argue that the traffic lights were faulty and hope the Magistrate accepts the argument.

Yes, by all accounts I did the right thing as per HW rule 176 - ie ascertained lights were faulty and proceeded with extreme caution and not cause anyone else to brake etc

The bit about the "white line is not applicable in my scenario. Thanks for your help - worry over.

 

[pioneercollector]

I think that you should be OK in that scenario, I would have done the same.

 

[DSM10000]

Today, we went out for our click and collect shopping from Tesco.
Their site on an industrial site
As I came off the high-speed dual carriage and approached the lights about 100 yards down the road they were
already red. It's a three-way traffic signal. Around that time of the day, very few vehicles approached these lights from the side I came
but the other two sets of lights are usually relatively busy ie a lot more busier than my side of the approach.

Iintially thought the lights did not turn green when they should have and then another came up behind me - I confirmed our side of the traffic lights
did miss at least another two times making it three in all at least. Then there was another car in the line up behind me - no one sounded their horn but
I was sure the lights at the time were faulty as I'd witnessed cars on the other to lights as stationary.

Therefore, as my view of the other two lights was very good and my side was not working and I'd give it reasonable time to judge this, I slowly turned right at the intersection with extreme caution ensuring no other traffic would have to brake because of my car and then proceeded down the road

On the way back we usually go a different route
but I decided to drive past and have a look and the lights were operational on all three sides.

Thinking about it. As I waited for what IMO
a reasonable time and ensured that my lights at the time were stuck on the red, I should be ok even if someone caught me with their dash cam. In my defence. (I was on a one-way section of the road, therefore no opportunity to turn back)

If the car behind followed you then they can hardly submit anything from a dash cam as it would show them also passing a red light.

Does the junction have traffic light cameras?

 

[BTB 500]

Problem here is that the lights were red rather than not working at all. You waited a 'reasonable time' in your opinion, but you did say that crossing traffic was much heavier so the system may have been giving that priority and would eventually have let you through?

 

[st13phil]

The bit about the "white line is not applicable in my scenario.

It's crossing the white line with any part of the vehicle while a red light is showing that makes the offence complete, so it is applicable. You would rely on a "the lights were faulty" defence.

 

[MSG2004]

Problem here is that the lights were red rather than not working at all. You waited a 'reasonable time' in your opinion, but you did say that crossing traffic was much heavier so the system may have been giving that priority and would eventually have let you through?

"Heavier" yes but in all of the 5 minutes I stood waiting, only two cars up had turned up behind me and though the other side was a "lot busier," there were big gaps on both sides. I crossed with extreme caution having satisfied myself that at the time the lights were faulty on my side.

"Reasonable" is open to wide interpretation and waiting about 5 mins at lights having seen the other sides change in their favour at least three times and then no cars on the other side is in my view reasonable enough. I'm now very confident I could easily defend my actions but hoping it does not come to that.

"Eventually let you go" - I've crossed those lights for a good 20 years, on and off and I am very familiar with those set of lights and the
"eventually" may have been at Christmas, therefore, I'm even more than convinced that I took the correct form of action.
I can also prove I was in no hurry and thankfully the driver that initially drove up behind me and 2 minutes later did not start sounding his/her horn and about a min before I moved, another car had pulled up behind the car behind me. There was no traffic if sight on the other two sides.

I once read someone pulled up at the red lights and waited for them to change for several years and just after she had crossed the red light, they turned green in her favour - so they "eventually" did turn green

 

[MSG2004]

If the car behind followed you then they can hardly submit anything from a dash cam as it would show them also passing a red light.

Does the junction have traffic light cameras?

No the car did not follow me as they'd only been there for about 2/3 mins max and I had a better view off seeing what was happening and waited long enough to ascertain the lights at that stage were stuck on red.

No cams - Just asked the question for reassurance and since then, having read the posts here and a bit more research - I'm 100% happy with my actions and could if required, vigorously defend them in a court but TBH, I wished I was not if the first position at the lights on my side. Having said that, if the driver behind me or them had started blasting their horn like I've experienced before when a traffic light has skipped my tune due to heavy traffic in the other direction,, I would have moved to one side to let them through. I only moved through as I was certain in my observations the lights at the time were stuck.

 

[TC350]

The correct action would have been to turn round and take the alternative route you talked about. But in reality it sounds like you took the safest action.

 

[MSG2004]

The correct action would have been to turn round and take the alternative route you talked about. But in reality it sounds like you took the safest action.

As per my intial post here - I was on a one-way road.

 

[TC350]

As per my intial post here - I was on a one-way road.

So you did. Sorry.

 

[BTB 500]

"Heavier" yes but in all of the 5 minutes I stood waiting, only two cars up had turned up behind me and though the other side was a "lot busier," there were big gaps on both sides. I crossed with extreme caution having satisfied myself that at the time the lights were faulty on my side.

"Reasonable" is open to wide interpretation and waiting about 5 mins at lights having seen the other sides change in their favour at least three times and then no cars on the other side is in my view reasonable enough. I'm now very confident I could easily defend my actions but hoping it does not come to that.

"Eventually let you go" - I've crossed those lights for a good 20 years, on and off and I am very familiar with those set of lights and the
"eventually" may have been at Christmas, therefore, I'm even more than convinced that I took the correct form of action.
I can also prove I was in no hurry and thankfully the driver that initially drove up behind me and 2 minutes later did not start sounding his/her horn and about a min before I moved, another car had pulled up behind the car behind me. There was no traffic if sight on the other two sides.

I once read someone pulled up at the red lights and waited for them to change for several years and just after she had crossed the red light, they turned green in her favour - so they "eventually" did turn green

As mentioned by @st13phil, you committed an offence by passing a red light, so it would be down to you to convince a magistrate that your actions were reasonable and no further action should be taken. You said you'd just been picking up a 'click & collect' order at a local store, and that the lights were no longer faulty when you drove back past them. Presumably not much time had passed, so it's perhaps a little odd that they had been fixed so quickly?

Just playing devil's advocate here - with no cameras at the junction it's extremely unlikely you would ever hear anything about it (if a patrol car had seen you go through you'd have been followed and stopped), and on a one-way road you had limited options! A quick hands-free call to 101 (the police non-emergency number) would perhaps have been the best action - they would likely have cleared you to go through and logged the issue. Getting someone else in the car to video what was going on might also have been a good idea as this could have been used to support your account if necessary.

 

[ChrisPDuck]

A quick hands-free call to 101 (the police non-emergency number)...

I didn't know that. Question is - will I remember it if ever I need it.

 

[BTB 500]

I didn't know that. Question is - will I remember it if ever I need it.

Stick it in your phone under 'police' (we can all remember 999 ).

When I used to commute by train there was a separate number for the Transport Police (e.g. if something kicked off at a station or on a train) - I had that saved on my phone just in case as I knew I'd never remember it otherwise

 

[markjay]

with no cameras at the junction it's extremely unlikely you would ever hear anything about it

I think this sums it up well....

 

[BIGDOG]

Today, we went out for our click and collect shopping from Tesco.
Their site on an industrial site
As I came off the high-speed dual carriage and approached the lights about 100 yards down the road they were
already red. It's a three-way traffic signal. Around that time of the day, very few vehicles approached these lights from the side I came
but the other two sets of lights are usually relatively busy ie a lot more busier than my side of the approach.

Iintially thought the lights did not turn green when they should have and then another came up behind me - I confirmed our side of the traffic lights
did miss at least another two times making it three in all at least. Then there was another car in the line up behind me - no one sounded their horn but
I was sure the lights at the time were faulty as I'd witnessed cars on the other to lights as stationary.

Therefore, as my view of the other two lights was very good and my side was not working and I'd give it reasonable time to judge this, I slowly turned right at the intersection with extreme caution ensuring no other traffic would have to brake because of my car and then proceeded down the road

On the way back we usually go a different route
but I decided to drive past and have a look and the lights were operational on all three sides.

Thinking about it. As I waited for what IMO
a reasonable time and ensured that my lights at the time were stuck on the red, I should be ok even if someone caught me with their dash cam. In my defence. (I was on a one-way section of the road, therefore no opportunity to turn back)

I admire your patience, I would have gone through before you did.

 

[MSG2004]

I admire your patience, I would have gone through before you did.

Thank you. Like many people, I drive what can be safely described as a relatively big car, GLE.
When I was younger, 17 my first car, then second and third cars, I thought I was a fast driver.
My dad used to tick me off rightly so. He told me that anyone can drive fast but it is about being safe, stopping in time and reading
the road and driving within the rules that count.

I treat me car as a potentially lethal weapon and I could not live with myself if I was responsible for an accident that resulted in injury, serious injury or worse to another, so I drive within the law, ensure to the best of my ability my car is 100% roadworthy and ensure my screen is clearly of frost on all windows and not just the front unlike many. To date, I've never had any points on my licence, most of it via skill since the age of about 24/25 and an element of luck.

Driving safely, indicating properly, driving with the rules and the conditions prevailing at the time helps to keep me, my
family and others on/in the road safer.

I'm 99.999% certain nothing will come of this. However, if something did come out of it and they offered by one of those courses you hear about - my response would be, see you in court as that is how confident I am that I took the right action, no expensive solicitor needed.

 

[MrGreedy]

Surely there isn't a traffic light in the land that takes more than 5 minutes to change?

 

[MSG2004]

Surely there isn't a traffic light in the land that takes more than 5 minutes to change?

There is none based on my knowledge. However, at times if there is a mass of traffic on a main road/s/junctions at times the ones with nose-to-tail vehicles are allowed a lot more time and you can wait up to close to 3 - 4 mins

I've also had incidences on another section of the road about 2 miles down where the red light on my side is skipped a go as the crossing traffic is heavy and you have to wait a second time around chance on the green and that is around 4 mins IIRC

Call "101" as stated by an earlier post, all I can do at that is - I'm not sure if anyone tried to call 101, but itcan take yonks to get through and as a driver, you should be aware of the highway code and thankfully this element of it came to mind and common sense helped me. The post here was just to seek some support, feel good see what others thought and I've got that.