Some Mercedes won’t cope with 2013 fuel

[davidmi]

That’s the worst case scenario for owners of some Mercedes among around 8,600,000 pre-2006 vehicles still on the road when the UK moves towards petrol with up to a 10% ethanol mix in two years’ time, although realistically it is expected to take a couple more years to be fully implemented. I’ve just had an update from a car club I belong to on the report prepared by Government consultants and discussions between the classic clubs and the Government. In summary, those of us running older cars and particularly classic or vintage are soon going to have to pay more and hunt for specialist supplies of low ethanol fuel or have complete fuel systems, whether injection or carburettor, overhauled or replaced to withstand the effects of ethanol on jets, hoses, seals etc. Fiberglass fuel tanks are history (does anyone use them?).

The good news for owners of older Mercedes (but only according to the French Government) is that most Mercedes built since 1 January 1993 are OK for use with SP95 E10 petrol. Unfortunately, that S600 is going to need a bit of expensive work as the French list V12s as incompatible. The full exclusion list is:
- V12-engined cars
– 271.942 engines introduced between 1 January 2002 and 31 December 2005
– Class A Turbo
– Class B Turbo
– C 200 CGI Sportcoupé (type 203) with the 203.743 engine
– C 200 CGI Estate (type 203) with the 203.243 engine
– CLK 200 CGI (type 209) with the 209.343 engine
– CLK 200 CGI Cabriolet (type 209) with the 209.443 engine.

I don’t know how relevant this French list is to UK models but it doesn’t tally with the QinetiQ consultants’ report for the Department of Transport which suggests that the majority of vehicles 10 years old or older will not be compatible with E10, while carburettor vehicles and powered two wheelers will suffer from material incompatibility, corrosion and driveability issues. However, the report does call on manufacturers to state whether their vehicles will, in reality, be compatible.

What does it all mean? Firstly, the EU Directive behind all this does not yet mean E10 is mandatory, although the UK Government is opting for E10 anyway and E5 is to be phased out in the UK in 2013 so don’t relax yet. Secondly, most petrol stations have space for just two grades of fuel so it is a good guess that Super, which is going to be allowed lower ethanol for a little longer, is going to cost more once petrol companies compute how many of the 8.6 million vehicles under threat may have to switch to Super only. Thirdly, it looks like being sensible to change fuel system components to ethanol-friendly materials as and when the need arises and if costs permit. And, be prepared to be banished to remote corners of rural garages to find the small derogation of low ethanol fuel for classic and historic vehicles. My nearest source of leaded fuel for my vintage car is 15 miles away and now costs around £10 a gallon!

 

[219]

May persuade more to switch to LPG ?

 

[st13phil]

I don’t know how relevant this French list is to UK models but it doesn’t tally with the QinetiQ consultants’ report for the Department of Transport which suggests that the majority of vehicles 10 years old or older will not be compatible with E10, while carburettor vehicles and powered two wheelers will suffer from material incompatibility, corrosion and driveability issues.

The bit about PTW's is a very real problem for lots of people. SP95-E10 has caused havoc for many motorcycle owners in France already and most owners there avoid it like the plague

Fortunately, in France ordinary SP95 is readily available in supermarket filling stations and SP98 doesn't carry the same level of price premium that it does in the UK. One can only hope that the UK doesn't go fully over to E10, but bearing in mind the scientific credentials of our politicians I suspect that hope will be in vain.

 

[artyman]

Hmmm... looks like my recent change to diesel was perhaps a good move then

 

[Oli]

So normal Unleaded 95 is getting completly phased out?, my car isn't on the list but I'm a bit worried about putting it in a bike.

 

[horgantrevor]

will the w202 range be affected

 

[shorty]

Is this gonna happen here in Ireland I wonder , hope not as my car has a 271 engine .

 

[verytalldave]

Remember - this is only the start.
That list is for E10 specification fuel.
Even more incompatibility will rear its head when E20 gets introduced a few years later.

Its something that that ALL EU refiners are rolling out right now. I am busy doing modifications for new ethanol injection systems on several refinery's.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100329103700.htm

 

[trapperjohn]

Being a bit of a on this and well behind the curve. Will this effect the diesel we will be putting in our tanks too.

 

[Burger]

Much of Germany has already switched to E10 and it's causing big problems but only because the wary, suspicious public won't buy it. Consequently there's now a shortage in Germany of super unleaded (98) and the roll out of E10 has been halted. It never ceases to amaze me how little understanding there is of octane ratings. Just because its called super and has a higher number doesn't mean it's better or will do your engine designed to run on 95 any good - as so many seem to think.

Anyway back to the point in hand, it seems the German publics biggest argument against E10 is that its unproven. They accept their cars will still run on it, but they want to know what the long term effects are... how will the car be in 150,000 miles time?

E10 fuel also returns lower mpg and so the cost increase for super unleaded is effectively cancelled out.

The attached document from MB DE details their stance on the use of E10.

Basically they say that ALL their cars including Maybach and AMG are perfectly safe to use E10 without modification except for "C 200 CGI/Baureihe 203 und CLK 200 CGI/Baureihe 209" manufactured between 2001 to 2005, ALL cars built before 1985 AND all cars listed.

See attached PDF.

View attachment 2010_12 E10_Service_Information.pdf

Regards,

 

[R2e]

This is strange. I lived in Malawi in the 1970's and they introduced ethanol in petrol -"According to Presscane Ltd, one of the two companies producing ethanol, Malawi has been using ethanol-blended fuel since the energy crisis in the 1970s. Companies such as BP Malawi, TOTAL Malawi and Chevron Malawi blend 10% ethanol with 90% petrol". The only problem I recall is that older cars were prone to rubber seal deterioration but current cars of the period were not a problem. I personally used this fuel in cars, both current and older, including a 1969 MB 250, a 1967 BSA 650 bike and Mercury and Evinrude outboard motors, all with no ill effects. Malawi recently followed Brazil's lead and are promoting pure ethanol (made from sugar cane) as a greener alternative to petrol.

Why 30 years on, cars should have problems running on 10% ethanol escapes me......

 

[verytalldave]

Being a bit of a on this and well behind the curve. Will this effect the diesel we will be putting in our tanks too.

No.
Well not in the foreseeable future it wont.
Diesel and ethanol dont mix well and will need allot more research done before it could be considered commercially viable.

 

[verytalldave]

Ethanol is NOT a 'green' fuel. Sure, its made from renewable sources like corn etc, but the process of refining it to be used as a mogas fuel certainly isnt.
Overall, ethanol is not the green answer that some claim.

 

[st13phil]

Overall, ethanol is not the green answer that some claim.

I agree, and there is also the elephant in the room that is the conflict between crop production to feed people and crop production to produce fuel. On so many fronts the burning of ethanol as a blend in motor fuel is wrong. That's the trouble when scientifically ignorant people wearing green-tinted glasses make decisions

 

[markjay]

Interestingly, I understand that all vehicles sold in Brazil are bi-fuel and can use either 100% Ethanol 100% petrol, or any combinations of the two, which drivers often just mix themselves when filling-up at at the petrol station. This way they choose the cheaper of the two as prices fluctuate...

 

[davidmi]

I would expect vehicles being built now to have suitable fuel system components and ECU programming that will allow them to run normal mileages (read high for Mercedes) as before but my concern is with the older Mercedes. I hanker after another W126 but E10 would not be compatible with my previous 1988 300SE. The worry is that currently-available replacement components for the car might also be new old stock and likewise liable to damage from the higher ethanol content. It is proposed that Super in the UK stays on E5 until 2014 but after that the W126's will have to run on whatever the Government allows to be made available for classic cars. QinetiQ is recommending to the Government that E5 should not be phased out in 2013 as originally proposed but that "its widespread availability should continue for the foreseeable future", and that a supply of E0 is kept for "historic and vintage vehicles". The official response is still awaited. Meantime, a W140 is looking a safer bet.

 

[ianrandom]

This is all very scary. I hope there are enough people driving older cars like my 126 to make sure suitable fuels are available.
Having said that, dont they have 10% ethanol in the US already? If so they seem to manage ok.

 

[Burger]

The fun in Germany continues...

This morning a 'technical expert' from BMW stated on public radio and TV that E10 fuel would damage any vehicles engine in the long term. This afternoon BMW issued a retraction. Tomorrow there is a government led meeting with all 'interested' parties to discuss what can be done about the current stalemate.

Then we'll get to go through it all ourselves in this country except that we're British and so won't open our mouths or make a fuss On the contrary, we'll just bend over and ask them to stick it in further!

Regards,

 

[Sp!ke]

This is from the Mercedes Approved Service Products manual.

 

[Frankie]

I'd be interested to know how a M111 will run on it, E85 would be interesting too.