The Bean Counters are in!

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Perhaps its merely a bit of MB internal management sabre rattling. In a big multinational company like MB there are bound to be lots of internal conflicts of opinion. Nothing like a bit of "its my way or the highway" from the man at the top to bring the troops into line. I wouldn't be surprised if the conflicts of opinion between the future roles of IC and EV played out here on the forum aren't mirrored at MB senior management level. Looking at Ola Kaellenius recent roles within Daimler I would offer its fairly obvious on which side off the debate his loyalties lie

Daimler names R&D head as next CEO, Zetsche to become chairman - Reuters
 
tron said:
They are not designed for brake cooling. They are designed to sell to boy racers of all ages.
Click to expand...
It's not just that though.

When buying a new or used car you need to spec this stuff in order to be able to sell in future as those without are deemed undesirable. Few people really want the fake stuff and rock hard ride but feel that it's a wise decision financially.

Same goes for Audi and BMW, less so for more mainstream brands.

Was it you that said that AMG line is about as relevant as Ford's Ghia branding?
 
Yes, and if people are buying cars they are unsatisfied with then they are foolish. I buy my cars for my taste, not those of some future owner. In a fickle market, who would not?
 
tron said:
Yes, and if people are buying cars they are unsatisfied with then they are foolish. I buy my cars for my taste, not those of some future owner. In a fickle market, who would not?
Click to expand...
I see that you run older cars so I'll assume that you are less familiar with how the newer market works.
 
Thank you for the patronisation.
I run older cars as well. My other car is eighteen months old and is not the first new car I have owned. As for the market, I am very aware of it but money is not my motivation otherwise I would not have arranged to have the (unsatisfactory) new car cubed next week to make a tie down for the aircraft.
People who buy things they don't really want in order to conform to other peoples' tastes are irrational. People who put up with something that turns out to be unsatisfactory are masochistic. I shall gain greater pleasure watching the Up! decomposing over the next many years than I would from the money it would fetch and it will ensure that Volkswagen will never make another penny out of it.
People will buy any old tat that is advertised hard enough (This week it is a cosmetic that boasts being 89% water.) I am far too worldly wise to compliment the Emperor on his dress sense which is why I wouldn't buy a new Mercedes-Benz. Modern Fords drive as nicely and have much less misapplied decoration.
Mercedes-Benz is aiming for a bigger market share through younger buyers. They already are a mainstream maker of ordinary cars, seventh biggest seller in the UK. The good stuff is now generations old like the great Jaguars. In what way is a M-B better engineered or better made or more durable than a Kia? None but the matter of prestige and preference convinces buyers that it is so. Five hundred horsepower engines and thousand pound tyre bills give cars short lives and the money won't last for ever. A big Mercedes lasts fifteen years before nobody wants to treat it properly, a small Cessna more than fifty despite being deeply unfashionable in its own market The value is in its utility which is why Dacias sell so well.
Aircraft are not designer handbags but too many cars (Minis as well as most Mercedes-Benz) are. Buyers are too caught up in impressing the neighbours to see that fashion is what goes out of fashion. If that makes for a glut of good old cars, honestly made from decent materials then so much the better for those that appreciate them but M-B selling plastic as leather or Vw selling Audis as Bentleys tells one exactly what the market is like. Rinsing the gullible. It was ever thus.
 
tron said:
Thank you for the patronisation.
I run older cars as well. My other car is eighteen months old and is not the first new car I have owned. As for the market, I am very aware of it but money is not my motivation otherwise I would not have arranged to have the (unsatisfactory) new car cubed next week to make a tie down for the aircraft.
People who buy things they don't really want in order to conform to other peoples' tastes are irrational. People who put up with something that turns out to be unsatisfactory are masochistic. I shall gain greater pleasure watching the Up! decomposing over the next many years than I would from the money it would fetch and it will ensure that Volkswagen will never make another penny out of it.
People will buy any old tat that is advertised hard enough (This week it is a cosmetic that boasts being 89% water.) I am far too worldly wise to compliment the Emperor on his dress sense which is why I wouldn't buy a new Mercedes-Benz. Modern Fords drive as nicely and have much less misapplied decoration.
Mercedes-Benz is aiming for a bigger market share through younger buyers. They already are a mainstream maker of ordinary cars, seventh biggest seller in the UK. The good stuff is now generations old like the great Jaguars. In what way is a M-B better engineered or better made or more durable than a Kia? None but the matter of prestige and preference convinces buyers that it is so. Five hundred horsepower engines and thousand pound tyre bills give cars short lives and the money won't last for ever. A big Mercedes lasts fifteen years before nobody wants to treat it properly, a small Cessna more than fifty despite being deeply unfashionable in its own market The value is in its utility which is why Dacias sell so well.
Aircraft are not designer handbags but too many cars (Minis as well as most Mercedes-Benz) are. Buyers are too caught up in impressing the neighbours to see that fashion is what goes out of fashion. If that makes for a glut of good old cars, honestly made from decent materials then so much the better for those that appreciate them but M-B selling plastic as leather or Vw selling Audis as Bentleys tells one exactly what the market is like. Rinsing the gullible. It was ever thus.
Click to expand...

I didn't realise that you were the one who was scrapping an 18 month old car, I understand better now.
 
You are mistaken. I am not scrapping it. I am turning it into something of more use to me. (I am also turning it into something of less use to the manufacturer who will not be getting the revenue from parts and servicing over the lifetime of the vehicle, which is the only effective way to retaliate.)
 
tron said:
You are mistaken. I am not scrapping it. I am turning it into something of more use to me. (I am also turning it into something of less use to the manufacturer who will not be getting the revenue from parts and servicing over the lifetime of the vehicle, which is the only effective way to retaliate.)
Click to expand...
Priceless.
 
Dropping the AMG brand is perfectly doable, after all AMG is not part of the Mercedes Benz DNA and was in fact an independent coachbuilder/tuner up to 20 years ago (similar to Brabus, Alpina, etc).

Dropping the AMG brand would make sense if the savings from doing so exceed the (direct and indirect) profits from selling AMG cars and associated merchandise.

I don't know the answer to this question.... but I have no doubt that the bean counters do.
 
tron said:
You are mistaken. I am not scrapping it. I am turning it into something of more use to me. (I am also turning it into something of less use to the manufacturer who will not be getting the revenue from parts and servicing over the lifetime of the vehicle, which is the only effective way to retaliate.)
Click to expand...


Is this the VW UP! ? If so, what's wrong with it....? I was thinking of buying one for young Miss MJ....
 
DrFeelgood said:
It's not just that though.

When buying a new or used car you need to spec this stuff in order to be able to sell in future as those without are deemed undesirable. Few people really want the fake stuff and rock hard ride but feel that it's a wise decision financially.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that secondhand buyers and new buyers have polar opposite tastes in what they want. If people do not really want fake stuff and rock hard rides then cars without them would be desirable in the secondhand market surely?

I'd hazard actually the percentage of new buyers considering the resale options is quite low and actually get the ones they want. A higher percentage of Mercedes cars are probably bought on PCP / leased than mainstream brands, which means that options are pretty much irrelevant.

You could remove the AMG part out of the trim name and people would probably still spec the cars the same.

Mercedes are in the 3rd phase of the younger generation trying to be different. First phase was BMW, but that got common so they went to Audi, now that is common they are shifting to Mercedes. All fuelled by the shift to not actually owning anything and using Leases and PCP to get access to them. Give it a couple of years and they will be shifting brands again. The years of single brand loyalty are gone, partly because cars are now a fashion accessory. If you can't keep the fashion hook, they will just move to the next thing.
 
No grip. Uncomfortable seats. Always misting up. Takes ages to clear. Wind noise, road noise, structural noise. Tendency to buck when gears changed. Dim headlights. Seats that neither fold properly nor stay still when folded. Cheap and easily marked plastics and fabrics. Very thick A pillars giving poor visibility. imprecise gear change. Poor rear visibility and hard to place due to high waistline. Air-conditioning, heating and ventilation systems in name only.
Tsi is very quick indeed and I have managed 94 MPG on a run. The radio is very good The satnav app is diabolical. The number of blank switches is depressing. A cheap car that costs too much and a source of continual irritation. Buy a Ford.
 
I never enjoyed any journey in it. We called it the bouncing bomb and I was always happy to get out of it. Steering lock very poor as well. Buttons on steering wheel with no functionality. Made to sell, not to be enjoyed.
 
400ixl said:
So you are saying that secondhand buyers and new buyers have polar opposite tastes in what they want. If people do not really want fake stuff and rock hard rides then cars without them would be desirable in the secondhand market surely?

I'd hazard actually the percentage of new buyers considering the resale options is quite low and actually get the ones they want. A higher percentage of Mercedes cars are probably bought on PCP / leased than mainstream brands, which means that options are pretty much irrelevant.

You could remove the AMG part out of the trim name and people would probably still spec the cars the same.

Mercedes are in the 3rd phase of the younger generation trying to be different. First phase was BMW, but that got common so they went to Audi, now that is common they are shifting to Mercedes. All fuelled by the shift to not actually owning anything and using Leases and PCP to get access to them. Give it a couple of years and they will be shifting brands again. The years of single brand loyalty are gone, partly because cars are now a fashion accessory. If you can't keep the fashion hook, they will just move to the next thing.
Click to expand...
You need to choose the sporty model to get the extras, even good lights.
Specifying an SE up to a decent standard is expensive
 
tron said:
No grip. Uncomfortable seats. Always misting up. Takes ages to clear. Wind noise, road noise, structural noise. Tendency to buck when gears changed. Dim headlights. Seats that neither fold properly nor stay still when folded. Cheap and easily marked plastics and fabrics. Very thick A pillars giving poor visibility. imprecise gear change. Poor rear visibility and hard to place due to high waistline. Air-conditioning, heating and ventilation systems in name only.
Tsi is very quick indeed and I have managed 94 MPG on a run. The radio is very good The satnav app is diabolical. The number of blank switches is depressing. A cheap car that costs too much and a source of continual irritation. Buy a Ford.
Click to expand...

all things easily identified on a test drive - which I could afford to chuck £10k away as a glorified paper weight
 
tron said:
I never enjoyed any journey in it. We called it the bouncing bomb and I was always happy to get out of it. Steering lock very poor as well. Buttons on steering wheel with no functionality. Made to sell, not to be enjoyed.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

£10k for a brand new car is very tempting... but I guess you can't actually build a high-quality car for that price.

I was considering it as a small city car, not for long journeys. On reading your post, I suppose many of your comments also applied to the original Mini when it was first introduced.....
 
Apparently there's an EV version (e-UP!) but VW are no longer taking orders due to small production runs?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)

Similar threads

Satch
The poison legacy of Jürgen Schrempp
Replies
1
Views
2K
jeremytaylor
jeremytaylor
Back
Top Bottom